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Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:28 am
by Penny
I have just set up my daughter Ellie with her own herd, as she is keen to have a few of her own with the view to showing at a few shows. It isn't cheap to set up herd prefix etc and transfers, but I was happy to encourage her.
Now I have read in the bulletin that Junior members herds are to be limited to 4.................why?!
She bought 2 cows, one of which has had a short legged heifer already and the other is due to calve at the end of June. In other words, if she gets another heifer, she will be up to her maximum of 4 before having had her herd for 4 months.
Why has the society introduced this rule? Is every one having herds in their children's names to avoid paying full membership? I doubt it! Just how many Junior members does the Society have and financially what difference does it make?
She is a grand little herdsperson ( age 11) and despite the large size of my herd, she knows them all with the exception of a few steers, whereas my husband says "which black cow do you mean?!"
She, and children like her, deserve support not only from parents but from the society. Could not a slightly more sensible number have been chosen if a limit does have to be out on it, eg 10?
Can someone please enlighten me as to why this decision was made.? 
Penny
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:56 pm
by Ted Neal
I think the whole question of fees needs looking at !!!!!
Just add up the cost of a new member if they have two cows.
Joining Fee £15
Annual sub £30
Transfer fee £20 (Why a fine for over 30 days ? ie £20 each)
Herd prefix £20
£85 before you do anything. What is the cost with other breeds ?
As for Juniors - why have a herd limit anyway ? We should be encouraging them to be interested in breeding.
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:03 am
by Jo Kemp
I am surprised that the herd size for junior members is as low as 4 but with some exceptions (Penny, your daughter is obviously one) youngsters are better to concentrate on a few animals so they are able to learn to look after animals properly. I know in the horse world just how many children have ponies and are overphased with the care needed for them which, in the end, reduces their fun using/playing/interacting with the ponies.
I am not involved with the committee so have no idea about the whys and wherefores but a restriction in junior herd numbers would seem sensible though, to me, 4 could be a bit low but there may be reasons.
Jo
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:51 am
by Martin
I think Ted is right, to be a member of the Dexter cattle society does seem to be rather expensive, especially when you look at how many small 'herds' there are. At a recent group meeting this topic was discussed. I know that nothing is cheap today, but when very few Dexters are kept commercially and most are kept as a hobby, you begin to wonder how many cattle are out there with no registration & people without membership as they consider it too expensive. At the meeting the main concern was the possible loss of bloodlines & the effect this may have in the future.
As a newish member of the society & speaking as someone on a reasonable salary the fees charged are not a problem for me. But I can see the problem for someone on a pension, or high mortgage & children, or not on a very good wage. I understand that some other societies do have lower fees than us but I do not have that type of information nor do I think it is really relevant. Value for money is probably more important. The question is does the Dexter Cattle Society give it?
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 2:38 pm
by Rob R
I don't think the DCS is particularly expensive among cattle societies, in fact up until a few years ago, it was one of the cheapest. I certainly wish it were cheaper and I'm glad I am not joining as a junior member now. Staring a show herd is expensive enough at a young age, and very few, I suspect, are now able to do it without parental support, especially with the higher prices now being commanded for show type shorts.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:54 pm
by Harriet Bunning
I had the same problem but eventually we decided to put the herd in my mum and my name. It was the only way even though mum only one of the cows (and its calf) are hers.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:30 pm
by Ken Hobbs
Harriet, when one Junior member has over 100 yes 100 registered to him/her a limit was put on. why not ask Council to increase the number to a resonable limit.
How many would you consider as being resonable.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:40 pm
by Ken Hobbs
Sorry Harriet, made mistake on numbers, having checked ped-e view it is only 46 at present.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:26 am
by Harriet Bunning
I agree than 46 is too much for a junior member but I still wonder what the reason for the limit is. Is it because we are worried that junior members cannot handle that may cows or is it because the fee is cheaper?
I don't think that the DCS want to put off younger members joining.
I only intend to have about 10 cows. I still have school work and important exams coming up so I think 10 or 15 is a good limit.
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:03 pm
by Ken Hobbs
Harriet, It is certainly not that the Council feels Junior members cannot handle their animals!!!
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:46 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Obviously we would wish to encourage all young people who are interested in keeping, breeding, showing Dexters. However the law does place restrictions on the age at which legal responsibilty for animals can be assumed. Whilst I would not be against young people having animals registered in their name myself, I just wonder where this sort of arrangement stands in law. Perhaps we need to work out some compromise with an adult taking the legal responsibilities whilst the junior member is the named keeper.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:29 pm
by Harriet Bunning
I don't know much about it. It's just that my mum was trying to organise the herd in my name for my Christmas present last year. In the end she got me a lovely new heiferinsted so I'm still happy!
As I said before, our herd is now in our family's name so although I am not offically the herd owner, I take care of the cows. Its working out quite well. I think is the best way to work it out.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:12 am
by moomin
What a nonsense to limit the number of cattle a junior member may own before they pay full fees.
I couldn't care less whether a junior member has 1 or 100 cattle. They still have to pay the same registration and transfer fees.
We have some super junior members in our society. They love and care for their cattle. Showing and interacting with other members teaches them a lot of life skills.
I don't know who proposed this on council or the reasons for it, looks like they are trying to "get at" one member from what Ken is saying.
The Dexter Cattle Society is becoming like the armed forces where everybody is punished because of an individual.
This rule is the stupidest and most negative rule that has ever been passed whilst I have been a member of the society and wants rescinding at once!
REMEMBER THE JUNIOR MEMBERS ARE THE BREED'S FUTURE, WE SHOULD ENCOURAGE THEM ALL WE CAN.
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:40 pm
by Peter thornton
I have to admit to the same feelings as Di.
The only saving made by a junior member is his/her subs, and this applies whether they have 1 or 100 cattle. In fact the saving per head is less for a larger herd!
Apart from the fact that I haven't heard any argument for limiting the size of junior herds - who came up with thye number 4?
Anyone who has actually kept cows will know that you need at least 2 to begin with - and guess what, they have calves! Unlike sheep, we don't sell calves every year, so 2 cows soon becomes a mini herd of at least 6. If they are steers then they are kept for almost three years meaning that 2 cows have then become up to 8 head of cattle.
Are we then suggesting that our junior member sells their cattle just to keep below 4?
As with so many other recent "innovations" this is a surefire way of increasing the size on the unregistered herd!
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:52 pm
by PeterO
Peter
I agree that 4 is an arbitrary figure - but if the child (or parents) can fund say 10 Dexters I suggest they can afford full subs.
Peter