Dexter Cattle For Sale Discussion Board

Hello Mark can I ask is it still being subsidised? And if so what are the costs for a small herd and minimum visit charge. It was - instead of the full cost including VAT being £72 it was I believe £36, is it still the same?

Stephanie

I’m afraid I’m not sure, you are correct as that has been the price for a few years. Council look like changing their whole pricing structure upwards across the board so I can only assume linear will be hit the same. Since my resignation from council last March I can no longer “fight for the cause”

Well, having watched the linear classification process after the AGM this afternoon it is clear that this is not a route I wish to go down with my herd. Many thanks to everyone who brought cattle for classification. It was interesting and informative to be involved with the process but I was unhappy with some of the ratings.

Louisa would you mind expanding on your post please? In what way were you not happy with some of the ratings? Was it particular cattle? I couldn't be there and am very interested!

Saffy - cattle have not evolved to walk on concrete. I'm perfectly well aware that feet and locomotion are important traits but it was clear that some animals had never walked on concrete before and were unhappy. Spread toes were marked down but in older animals this could merely be a response to the terrain on which they normally live and this was not taken into consideration. Tail heads, which I thought were good examples of the breed, were consistently marked down. The type of tail head evidently preferred by the assessor is not, in my opinion, a true type for the Dexter. An udder that extends below the hock would be marked down. The display of period photos of early C20th classic short-leg Dexters had examples of beautiful cows with splendid udders but extending below the hock line. My current heavy milking short leg when in full milk has such an udder but neither I nor the calf have trouble milking her.
I therefore think some of the assessor's requirements show more derivation from the Holstein formula for heavy milking long legged cows in concrete yards than being truly tailored to dual purpose hill cattle with two distinct phenotypes.
One breeder has spent years continuing to breed non-chondro shorts along Woodmagic principles but the review of the bull showed no understanding of this as the animal was marked down, among other points, for being under height!

Thank you, your observations were very interesting Louisa.

It is not easy to demonstrate linear at a cattle market (ie this DCS AGM), it has been done before in similar surroundings and I feel has worked slightly better. There is no substitute for classifying on the members own farm in familiar surroundings which is where 99% of linear classification takes place, obviously there has to be an area of hard ground or concrete where feet and locomotion can be assessed properly.
From an udder point of view, older cows with good udders just below the hock are not a problem as long as they are not excessively deep. The age of the cow needs to be taken into consideration, a heifer with and udder below the hock is more than likely going to have a large udder latter in life so you would not want a massive udder on a heifer. All these things are taken into consideration and in my opinion are just common sense to attain long lived productive cows, that should surely be what the breed wants to achieve.

There was a smaller non short bull which scored only GP81 which both the owner and new purchaser admitted looked nothing like the animal it was when it was assessed earlier this year when it scored GP84, its housing situation had changed for the last few months beforehand.

The exercise was to demonstrate linear and we are wholly grateful to the members who were kind enough to bring cattle forward, as I say the circumstance could have been better but it did get the message across to those who attended with a number asking for linear in the future.
Also our Irish members both North and South will be having classifiers over there next year as well as another visit to a different region in Germany to be arranged.

Stephanie, I am told that at least on Saturday (AGM) the existing prices for linear are still valid.

Mark - I'm passionately in favour of long-lived productive cows. If you look at the age profiles of my reference collection cows in my thesis, you will see I couldn't source any Dexters in the over 3 under 9 age bracket that form the bulk of most comparative collections of other breeds. One of the photos on display on Sat was of Ypsitty Bridesmaid, died age 25. Valerie Roberts always maintained that a Dexter didn't get into her stride producing milk until 5th lactation, and her milk records corroborate this. Maybe Holsteins should be learning from us, rather than vice versa, in the matters of longevity and production.
I've also been astounded this year by judges in "Any Other Breed" classes this year considering my 7 year old to be doing well for her age when I think she's just coming into her prime! The assessor on Sat also gave me the impression that he considered 5th calvers to be aged, which does not bode well in my opinion for linear as a tool to increase longevity.

Andrew maybe was miss understood. My cow Linford Blueberry was assessed last October in front of all 5 assessors and scored EX95, she had her 13th calf when she was still 13 years young, she is a carrier and has not had twins just 1 calf a year.HUK have assessed some of Stephanies animals at 17 years I think and Galehill Filo who is 14 and was shown at the national show this year, classifying at EX91. Longevity and production are definitely taken into consideration and animals of a good age and are producing score well.
HUK were somewhat surprised and complimentary to see how productive dexters are.

Woodmagic Merlin 6th was assessed at 19 years and 9 months old last March, possibly the oldest to be scored? Her score was Ex92. Many of her calves have not been registered, she has actually had 17 calves and is possibly in calf again, time will tell.

I certainly think that linear has a place for those who wish to have a dispassionate view taken of their cattle and are maintaining closed herds for health schemes or TB testing. I'm fortunate to be in a TB 4 year testing area with a range of shows with both Dexter and other breed judges. I've always appreciated feedback from judges as it's hard to see faults when cattle are led if you are doing the leading.
One comment I registered on Saturday was that a cow had scored X points and this was the general average for all cows/breeds. I would find it helpful if more indication was given of the scoring for the ordinary cow in the field rather than the elite end of the range. Hard to tell how above average these may be if we are not given the normal range.

I thought it was a good demo of the things that can go well and the things that go with getting less than EX results! Not all animals are going to be excellent, so it was good to see a spread of results, from animals not being awarded points due to eg overheight, to bull not having 4 well defined evenly spaced teats. I know not everyone believes that teat numbers and placement in bulls is important but I think it is. So is height. For my own bull, I certainly did not come with expectations of him getting a very high score. He was assessed a year ago at GP84, and actually Andrew Spicer put him a few points lower at 81. Under the rules of the scheme he will remain at 84. He spent the summer on poor grazing with high percentage of rashes, and to be sure I had him ready to load for travel he was taken in about 10 days ago. He had lost condition due to declining grass outside and then the change for a short time inside, so not altogether a surprisiing result. I have not got printout of results yet but look forward to seeing the detail - actually a bit difficult to follow all Andrew was saying as he did it when involved in handling the animals.Having two bulls and a cow already assessed as EX I cannot expect all of such a small herd to do the same - I am interested in the long term, will breeding from EX parents consistently give high scoring offspring etc. I do think Linear Assessment by highly trained independent assessors is a really good way to get independent opinion on the good and bad points of your individual animals and a picture of the herd overall. That should be a good tool to pinpoint herd strengths and weaknesses, and if, for example your herd shows good or above in most things but feet not doing too well, then next time a new bull is needed go for an assessed one which as high score for feet. or from a family with good udders if your cow's udders are weak, To me it is a long term thing

Duncan, breeder of two animals at Saturday's event