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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:36 am
by Sylvia
Any ideas why my newly housed (only a few weeks) cattle are rubbing their coats off in an alarming fashion? The exposed skin looks unblemished and not flaky. It is a new barn and they are bedded on wheat straw topped up every day. Hay is obtained through a front feeder system. In a couple of weeks we will change back to haylage fed the same way. They have general purpose mineral powder available and natural water from our farm system (the same as in the outside troughs). The steelwork has been red oxide painted.
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:58 pm
by Carol K
Sounds like Lice, a good pour on would work. it's common this time of the year in the States, I presume it would be the same for England.
Carol K
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:18 am
by Sylvia
Thanks Carol K, but I may be a bit dim about this - where did they come from? No sign the cattle were affected before they came into the barn. I didn't think lice could live off the animal on bought-in straw for instance, and it is a brand new barn - or it was when they went in!
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:49 am
by Caroline
We have to delouse the horses this time of the year and coming into the height of the summer. We use the big blue coloured general purpose farm livestock lice powder and sprinkle it on and groom it in. Its easier to do a dry delouse this time of year rather than a wet one.
The symptons you describe sound just like the ones the livery yard horses used to get. Not ever had it in my own but it has become such a habit that despite shutting the yard down I still delouse.
We were informed (when a livery yard), they get picked up from the grazing grass, especially if the field has been rested and as the flush of grass comes through so do the lice. The birds and foxes that hunt and eat the seeds in the fields drop the lice, esp mangey foxes. Some livestock seem more prone to it than others, same way that one animal grazing where a mangey fox has been will catch mange yet another appears immune!
Def delouse the whole herd (its what I would do with the horses) as they rub up against each other. Also wash hands after treating each animal and louse powder stinks and gets down the throat!!!!
Hope this is of some use.
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:44 am
by Duncan MacIntyre
We should be considering mange caused by mites as well as lice here, and both lice and mange mites can be present in very small numbers in normal cattle and then multiply hugely when conditions are right. Sometimes hair loss occurs seasonally and there is no evidence of parasites at all.
Lice are visible to the naked eye in good light with the animal quiet and still. Mange mites are microscopic and need examination of a skin scraping to find them. If you cannot see any lice on the affected cattle it is probably best to assume that there are likely to be mange mites involved and use a pour on which covers mange as well as lice - Spoton for instance does lice but not mange, whereas Ivomec or Dectomax do both.
Both lice and mites tend to be fairly "host specific" - that means they do not tranfer from one species to another - horse lice for horses, cattle lice for cattle, sheep lice for sheep and human lice for humans etc. Same with mites, though if species are closely related, such as dogs and foxes, you may get some overlap. If anyone has a dog with sarcoptic mange they may get some irritation temporarily but they will not get true scabies from the dog.
Duncan
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:21 pm
by Caroline
It could be mange, only thing is that when our animals got mange from the foxes the hair fell out, leaving red area which looked raw and sore. This then went flakey and looked like wet excema, which they rubbed and made weep which then transfer the mites and the whole process starts again.
Also with mange the animal may try and pull its own fur out as it does not understand that its the mites that are causing the itch and pain and not the fur. If not treated then it gets unpleasent as the animal will almost be infatic in its efforts to stop the pain.
Personally I would treat for both and if its mange you will see a difference pretty quickly (within a week). If it still does not clear up then get a vet out.
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:04 am
by Inger
We use pour-on every Spring as lice and ticks are sure to make their appearance with the warmer temperatures. It pays to get in early, before too much hair loss appears, otherwise it can take a while for the hair to grow back again and in the meantime their necks look awful, with bare patches, where they've been rubbing against a tree.
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:31 pm
by Sylvia
They must be hardy little blighters, we've just had the coldest spell of the winter and although they are in the barn there is (as advised elsewhere) no warm spots in there.
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:26 pm
by Caroline
Just an idea but have any foxes being sleeping in the barn to escape the cold?
We found one asleep in my spare stable (its where I put my highland when vet comes etc), so as it had mange I have had to scrub everything and treat the animal just in case. Also burnt the straw the blighter was sleeping on. Mange mites can live approx 2 weeks off of the host (bedding) before dying if another host not found.
As you can guess I have issues with our mangey foxes!!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:49 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
To the best of my knowledge foxes have nothing to do with mange or lice in cattle. Cattle lice and mange mites persist because very small numbers survive in periods when they appear to us to be absent, then multiply at a phenomenal rate when conditions are right. Another way for them to survive very nicely is if some of the herd only are treated at the same time, and transfer back from the untreated to treated later. Handlers and equipment, lorries, pens in markets, trailers, all can transfer mites and lice mechanically if there is repeated use. I can't quote survival times for cattle mange mites off the top of my head (not that there are any on the top of my head) but sheep scab mites will survive in pens or on fences for 14 days.
Duncan
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:36 pm
by Caroline
Wow that is news to me. If what you say is correct then I have nothing to fear from our foxes. My vet has been fleecing me. Saying that the mange mite can transfer from animal to animal - I am not impressed but am I suprised .............
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:07 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Obviously you, and of course your vet, are in an area where foxes are present and obviously at times in very close proximity to stock. I, on the other hand am in an are blessed in livestock terms by total absence of foxes. I am basing my replies on what I learned quite some time ago so I will be happy to go off in the next day or two and get a definitive answer on the relevance of foxes to cattle mange - but I will need to do it in my office and it may take some time as tomorrow is going to be a bit hectic. Please bear with me and I will reply as soon as poss.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:09 pm
by Caroline
Thanks I do hate to be controversial but it would be great to have a definitive answer. I will never turn down advice, but often like to go on to research it. Cheers and I look forward to the response.
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 10:35 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Hands up all those who thought I had forgotten this one!! I have asked around amongst vets and have not found anyone who thinks fox mange will transfer to cattle. It will easily transfer to dogs.
Sorry it has take so long - I have asked vets in diagnostic labs and those on a vets discussion site, and no one replied indicating that they believed foxes would be a risk to cattle or horses as far as mange was concerned, quite a few replied in agreement with me.
Duncan
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:02 am
by Sylvia
Duncan
We should all take our caps off (and reveal what unwanted creatures are creeping around in our hair) to you for the work you do in providing help on this site. Many thanks.