Apologies in advance if this doesn't come out right, trying to get to grips with the new system.
I'd only seen my own chunky, short type of Dexters until I went on my recent shopping spree. What an eye-opener. I would never have believed that Dexters came in such a wide variety of shapes and sizes if I didn't have some of them in my paddock now. Not all are registered but look very Dextery, some are registered and look anything but. All are smaller than the "big" breeds. Very interesting! Anyone care to comment?
Dexters: A breed or a concept?
HI Sylvia,
I am glad your shopping spree was productive and fun too
But your topic is quite a good one ...well I wont get started... But why Dexters come in so many shapes and sizes is simply to do with the genetics of the animal in question...
Weather the Shortleg/carrier (I would assume your 'chunky' freinds just like mine!) are a 'breed' has been debated 'adnausium' - and to the letter of the definition - no they are not. But hey I hold to the view that they never were a 'breed' but a variety of the Kerry breed.
The 'other types' you have seen would be longleg/noncarriers ...I am assuming those which were 'big' would be the normal variety (those I saw when I was over there were!) ...but the others - the ones which are smaller than your average longleg - I would love to hear more about! How small were they Sylvia and more to the piont what were their breeding?
Kathleen
I am glad your shopping spree was productive and fun too
But your topic is quite a good one ...well I wont get started... But why Dexters come in so many shapes and sizes is simply to do with the genetics of the animal in question...
Weather the Shortleg/carrier (I would assume your 'chunky' freinds just like mine!) are a 'breed' has been debated 'adnausium' - and to the letter of the definition - no they are not. But hey I hold to the view that they never were a 'breed' but a variety of the Kerry breed.
The 'other types' you have seen would be longleg/noncarriers ...I am assuming those which were 'big' would be the normal variety (those I saw when I was over there were!) ...but the others - the ones which are smaller than your average longleg - I would love to hear more about! How small were they Sylvia and more to the piont what were their breeding?
Kathleen
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Mark Bowles
- Site Admin
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Hi Sylvia,
You see your own cattle every day and sometimes you can get tunnel vision,thinking what a load of scraggy rubbish this lot are.
I really cant count the number of times i have been to a show or a herd visit etc , and then come home and though that my cattle are not so bad after all!
Whatever you want from a Dexter you can find one to suit, there are that many types,whos to say which is correct? no one thats who!
So just enjoy,its nearly spring.
Mark
You see your own cattle every day and sometimes you can get tunnel vision,thinking what a load of scraggy rubbish this lot are.
I really cant count the number of times i have been to a show or a herd visit etc , and then come home and though that my cattle are not so bad after all!
Whatever you want from a Dexter you can find one to suit, there are that many types,whos to say which is correct? no one thats who!
So just enjoy,its nearly spring.
Mark
Mark Bowles
Linford Dexters
Webmaster
Linford Dexters
Webmaster
Hi Mark,
I agree with you when you say "whos to say which is correct? no one thats who!" that is how I have felt all along _and still feel! Unfortunately there are a lot of people who want to tell others which type they can breed and which they can not. And when all else fails they get in a position of power and change standards and/or engage in 'mis-information' to discredit one type over another. At the moment it is Australia's 'height issue' ...in other places (like Germany I gather) it is a 'dwarf issue' ...in other places with some people it is a 'our type is a long lost original' and 'your's has a lethal gene so it should be exterminated!' issue!
Just for the record (even tho I have said it before!) I have no problem with people breeding any type they like. I admit I get a bit snappy when some make claims which are not supported by the few fact we have about where the breed came from and what it was/is. And I get really snarly when people use data and twist it to come to 'pre-concieved' conclusions.
But hey who am I? No one! Just the annoying female from Down-Under who asks all the annoying questions ...some of which never seem to get answered!
*sigh* as I have said before: I wish people could just live and let live!
Kathleen
I agree with you when you say "whos to say which is correct? no one thats who!" that is how I have felt all along _and still feel! Unfortunately there are a lot of people who want to tell others which type they can breed and which they can not. And when all else fails they get in a position of power and change standards and/or engage in 'mis-information' to discredit one type over another. At the moment it is Australia's 'height issue' ...in other places (like Germany I gather) it is a 'dwarf issue' ...in other places with some people it is a 'our type is a long lost original' and 'your's has a lethal gene so it should be exterminated!' issue!
Just for the record (even tho I have said it before!) I have no problem with people breeding any type they like. I admit I get a bit snappy when some make claims which are not supported by the few fact we have about where the breed came from and what it was/is. And I get really snarly when people use data and twist it to come to 'pre-concieved' conclusions.
But hey who am I? No one! Just the annoying female from Down-Under who asks all the annoying questions ...some of which never seem to get answered!
*sigh* as I have said before: I wish people could just live and let live!
Kathleen
A clarification for those that are interested: … the reason I ask questions about heights and types and pedigrees is because I am trying to find the 'exception' that will prove me wrong. I do not want to be so skeptical about the 'short proportionate' … but the fact is I have found the evidence for why longlegs are the way they are and why there are the types of shortlegs that there are … but there is only a couple of reasons (logical reason and genetic reasons) for why a 'short proportionate Dexter' exists. If I could find examples that are not within those 'couple of reasons' then I would be very happy and be able to modify my assumptions accordingly. But unfortunately no one who has made assertions to me regarding the 'short proportionate' has ever come up with any evidence, which negates those 'couple of reasons'.
Just so everyone is clear of what I am looking for… I would like details of mature Dexters (PB obviously would be best but I am interested in appendix/graded up animals also) which are at or below the Ideal height limit of 42" for females and 44" for males. Mature means they must be at least over 3 years but over 5 would be better. I would prefer them to be tested non-carrier but if you are absolutely positive they are noncarriers then I am willing to put them in my stats. And last but not least I need pedigrees to go with them so I can work out any inbreeding or other factors.
You can email me at m4m@austanet.com.au
Kathleen Carson.
Australia
Just so everyone is clear of what I am looking for… I would like details of mature Dexters (PB obviously would be best but I am interested in appendix/graded up animals also) which are at or below the Ideal height limit of 42" for females and 44" for males. Mature means they must be at least over 3 years but over 5 would be better. I would prefer them to be tested non-carrier but if you are absolutely positive they are noncarriers then I am willing to put them in my stats. And last but not least I need pedigrees to go with them so I can work out any inbreeding or other factors.
You can email me at m4m@austanet.com.au
Kathleen Carson.
Australia
Oh dear I didn't want to start a 'turf war'. Live and let live suits me fine. Is anyone going to suggest putting a tape measure around them (just behind the front legs possibly?) to check the all important girth. In your dreams I say. I'll be interested to see what these newcomers look like with some good summer grass and tlc though.
Hi Sylvia,
No 'war' here ... sometimes my posts (which are written with a calm mental vioce) read a bit 'ranting' ...
But I am wondering if you could just explain to me what you mean when you said: "Is anyone going to suggest putting a tape measure around them (just behind the front legs possibly?) to check the all important girth. " ...I think you mean to check the wieght and depth/thickness of the animal BUT I may well be right off the track soooo ...would you explain what you mean?
Thanks
Kathleen.
No 'war' here ... sometimes my posts (which are written with a calm mental vioce) read a bit 'ranting' ...
But I am wondering if you could just explain to me what you mean when you said: "Is anyone going to suggest putting a tape measure around them (just behind the front legs possibly?) to check the all important girth. " ...I think you mean to check the wieght and depth/thickness of the animal BUT I may well be right off the track soooo ...would you explain what you mean?
Thanks
Kathleen.
Hi Kathleen
We are a bit 'punch drunk' here at present what with lambing etc and I was being a bit flippant about measuring round the animals as well as their shoulder height but I suppose it might prove if dexters all have the same body which just happens to be perched on short legs or longer ones. There again it might not as some look very broad and others seem more slab shaped.
More seriously I only have a few animals which are old enough for your research purposes and I can see the point of testing (now it is possible) for carriers/non carriers in short leg types. If I ever find time to do it I'll let you know the results.
We are a bit 'punch drunk' here at present what with lambing etc and I was being a bit flippant about measuring round the animals as well as their shoulder height but I suppose it might prove if dexters all have the same body which just happens to be perched on short legs or longer ones. There again it might not as some look very broad and others seem more slab shaped.
More seriously I only have a few animals which are old enough for your research purposes and I can see the point of testing (now it is possible) for carriers/non carriers in short leg types. If I ever find time to do it I'll let you know the results.
Hi Sylvia,
Do not worry about being flippant ... I know (from personal experience :;): ) how easy it is to get that way!
Actually I am glad I asked you to explain because I see what you mean and I see the merit in the idea! It is sort of what I 'go on about' when I say that the shortlegs have a better body capacity etc... than the short proportiantes... but to be honest if we do not have figures then it is all subjective!
Re my 'pet project' and your offer to help _ I would be most greatful for any help you can give me _ and whatever interesting things turn up I will share first with those that have helped me out.
All the best with the lambing
(what sort of sheep do you have?)
Kathleen.
Do not worry about being flippant
... I know (from personal experience :;): ) how easy it is to get that way!Actually I am glad I asked you to explain because I see what you mean and I see the merit in the idea! It is sort of what I 'go on about' when I say that the shortlegs have a better body capacity etc... than the short proportiantes... but to be honest if we do not have figures then it is all subjective!
Re my 'pet project' and your offer to help _ I would be most greatful for any help you can give me _ and whatever interesting things turn up I will share first with those that have helped me out.
All the best with the lambing
(what sort of sheep do you have?)
Kathleen.
Hi Kathleen
Sheep? Jolly awkward ones at present. Ones that want to steal someone else's before they lamb, then when they lamb deciding one's enough and the other one they've had should be shredded through the pen side. Most of the rest of the time they are my sweet little Shetlands - intelligent, sensible etc etc. At present mutton stew sounds quite tempting but it will all be alright when things settle down again.
Sheep? Jolly awkward ones at present. Ones that want to steal someone else's before they lamb, then when they lamb deciding one's enough and the other one they've had should be shredded through the pen side. Most of the rest of the time they are my sweet little Shetlands - intelligent, sensible etc etc. At present mutton stew sounds quite tempting but it will all be alright when things settle down again.
HI Sylvia,
*laughing* I thought my life was difficult!
...I have vertually no experience with sheep and I think I will keep it that way... I knew a bloke who had a heap once ... I was allways facinated with their body language... but except for knowing they wanted me gone when they stommped their front foot at me I never had the time to learn much else.
Shetlands? does that mean they are small? (hoping desperately that that is not a really stupid question :D because all sheep are 'small')
Kathleen.
*laughing* I thought my life was difficult!
...I have vertually no experience with sheep and I think I will keep it that way... I knew a bloke who had a heap once ... I was allways facinated with their body language... but except for knowing they wanted me gone when they stommped their front foot at me I never had the time to learn much else.
Shetlands? does that mean they are small? (hoping desperately that that is not a really stupid question :D because all sheep are 'small')
Kathleen.
Hi Kathleen
No not a stupid question. Shetlands are small as sheep go (one of the Northern short tail group they produce what is known as light lambs i.e. making any money out of them is almost impossible but they have very fine fleece in a multitude of colours). I think I'm going to get banned if I keep talking about sheep so I'll try to get back to Dexters, promise. :D
No not a stupid question. Shetlands are small as sheep go (one of the Northern short tail group they produce what is known as light lambs i.e. making any money out of them is almost impossible but they have very fine fleece in a multitude of colours). I think I'm going to get banned if I keep talking about sheep so I'll try to get back to Dexters, promise. :D
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Mark Bowles
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- Location: Leicestershire England
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Duncan MacIntyre
- Posts: 2372
- Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:38 am
- Location: Isle of Bute, Scotland, UK
As far as I know (don't ask me to quote references) shetland ewes crossed with cheviot tups will produce more pounds or even Kilos of lamb from an acre than any other combination. I wonder what the figures would show for Dexters crossed with a beef bull and kept on intensive grass compared to larger breeds in fewer numbers?Mark Bowles wrote:Yes Sylvia, i now have the technology to BAN anyone,..... oh the power!
We have a few Southdowns, sheep that is, we could start a whole new Board.
Mark
Duncan,
who can only boast a few North Ronaldsays which have been crossed with Blackface and Ryleands on a small scale.
Duncan MacIntyre
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Burnside Dexters 00316
Burnside
Ascog
Isle of Bute
Holy cow, now everyone's at it - sheep I mean. Thanks for the info about crossing I might go down that road one day but am breeding for pure at present. I don't think I want my Dexters squashed by a beefy great guy either - (I know - AI's the answer to that) but my view is small is beautiful. Especially as 2 rather small females (2-legged) have just persuaded a well grown yearling Dexter that haltering, coming into the barn and having a foot pared and sprayed is not such a bad idea really. OK Mark? Back to Dexters - do I escape the ban?:)