Dexter Cattle For Sale Discussion Board

I wasn't sure about posting this but at some point today I realised that it may be useful to other less experienced keepers like ourselves. Like a lot of people we had read about this but had never seen it or dealt with it for real.

I went up and decided to give the cows a bale of hay late this afternoon. All looking fine, they ran up to the quad and I cut the strings and laid the flakes out across the field. Most of the cows settled on the first slices and as I turned the quad back to the gate I saw Parrot walking away from the hay and the others. She was kicking her back legs out backwards, just like you see a dog doing when they've had a poo.
I suddenly realised what I was looking at as she started to stagger more and went down. I raced back on the quad and in the mud couldn't stop before I hit the gate, which flew open so I kept going. Grabbed the 'cow box' and Ellie, my daughter who was in the stables and back up to the field. Parrot was on her side and appeared to be having a seizure. She was showing a lot of the white of eye and her front and back legs were thrashing back and forth. There was a white foamy saliva coming from her mouth. Her breathing was laboured. She would stop thrashing for short periods and then start again. It would have been very unwise to have tried to do anything other Han from over her back. As I started injecting Calciject under the skin along her ribs I also phoned the farmer up the road. He jumped in his truck and arrived with his daughter, more calciject, magniject and big syringes. Parrot's skin was very tight over her ribs and it was not easy getting the needle in. We carried on injecting, finding it quicker to leave a needle in her side and one in the bottle and just transfer the syringe. After two syringes full I would move the needle to a different location. We then rolled her up onto her front by getting hold of her ears and lifting her head. I stood behind her back to stop her rolling back while Ivan pushed her back legs underneath her and Ellie went off to get four bales of straw to prop her upright and provide a wind break so she was wedged upright with straw bales, high enough to get her out the wind.
About 45 mins later, up she got, Ivan caught her head and held it up so she didn't go down again and she's back on her feet.
I have to admit to being properly shaken with this. On the one hand it's great she's ok, on the other it was so fast and sheer fluke I saw her go down. If I hadn't seen her the next thing is we would have found her dead tomorrow morning.
Also I don't understand why she went down as they get Suckler cow rolls very day.
She was checked at midnight and again at 6am and appears to be none the worse.
We now have a dedicated staggers kit in a tool box, separate from the other kit. It contains 2 x Calciject, 2 x Magniject, 3 x 60ml syringes and 4 x appropriately sized needles. The idea is that this is a grab box should it happen again. The reason for more than one bottle is in the event that another cow goes down before we have replenished stock.

Well done Tim, you have done a good job saving her, it is not easy. Double check on feed input, is it adequate especially for energy. Cold and wet combined with low energy input can predispose, just as much as over rich wet grass in spring or autumn. Has she been in season? they are more prone to staggers when in season. Also check that they are all getting share of both hay and the rolls. Consider hi mag rolls for a while, but there is sometimes difficulty getting them to eat those.


Duncan

Thanks Duncan.
They all get the Suckler Cow Rolls that Mole Valley make and get half a scoop each a day. They are a mineral roll including mag, selenium etc. They love them and will come running for them.
We are upping their DM intake as the ground is very wet and there is not a lot of grass left but it's a balancing act to keep the weight off them.
She's feeding a 3 month old calf.

Watch carefully in 3 weeks Tim in case she is not yet in calf again and a season has triggered the staggers.

Duncan

We wont be putting the bull in to them until about June as we are changing back to spring calving.

What is the connection between seasons and staggers?

I am concerned that we are not providing them with enough mag. The rolls are 1.5% Mag and they each get about 1kg of nuts per day which they have had all the time they have been here. I am starting to hear that they should be getting 50-100g Mag per cow per day? Is that right?
If it is, the suckler cow rolls come in 25kg sacks so with Mag at 1.5% there is 0.375kg of Mag per sack? Based on the 50-100g/cow/day (75g average) that would mean a sack should last each cow 5 days or 1 sack per 5 cows daily. We have 12 cows/heifers in the field so on that basis should be putting out 2+ sacks per day - which doesn't seem right.
Working the other way, they get about 1kg of nuts per day which at 1.5% is 15g Mag. Based on the 75g mag /cow/day they should get 5kg rolls / day. Still seems way too much!
(My maths may be wrong here - its not my strong point!)

That's a massive increase on what they get now and everything we have been lead to believe to date.
We don't want to put licks down due to the badgers so the alternative is Mag chloride flakes in the water tank - there's only one in the field. I am about to drain the tank down - no harm there's little difference between whats in the tank and whats on the ground around it(!) - clean it out and put in
1kg of Mag Chloride flakes which we will repeat daily.

What do others do?

I understand you can bolus but that lasts only about one month apparently.

I usually think of traditional hi mag cake as 2%, and a cow should get about 1kg a day, so a bit less for a Dexter. The !.5% stuff will however be more palatable, so they will eat it better.It all depends on what else they are getting, and it may be that the overall energy intake has taken a dip. The connection with being in season is probably also linked to temporary dip in intake with a cow in season spending less time grazing and more running about so to speak.

I have slowly weaned mine of any mineral suppliment whatever, I used to put licks out for them, or in very early days they were inside in winter and if I was milking them they got lots of cake anyway. But I think that old grass such as I have is different to fertilised modern seed mix, and so I have stopped any suppliment. None at all for over 4 years now. I did try trace elemement boluses two years ago but could not see any difference. I would not like to recommend that to anyone else though, I am prepared to see what happens. So far so good.

Duncan

I think the secret is what else they are getting ie what is the amount of Mag in the environment and whats their uptake and I don't know the answer to that one.
We are on old PP nothing new here although not the type of ground you are on. We know the area is low on Mag and Beryl was very very firm with me about Mag before I took delivery of the first two.
From what I understand surplus Mag goes through with little detrimental effect unless it is highly concentrated so perhaps the thing is to boost them for a short period and then provide a maintenance dose through the flakes in the tank and use the suckler cow rolls to provide the other supplements such as selenium etc.

Over a decade ago my herd was hit with awful cases of pinkeye, and through inquiry a long-time farmer told me to feed KELP. So I did. Free choice and year round. My cows thrived with kelp, beautiful shiny coats, and all around good condition and not a single case of pink eye during the next years. During the spring of 2013 I was distracted by some other issues in life and I neglected the kelp during the fall and winter and in the summer of 2014 my herd was hit with pink eye. Quickly contained when I ran to the coop for kelp!

I understand that KELP is naturally high in magnesium, and it is truly a "health food" for the cattle in my herd, so perhaps that is a good topic for discussion. Do you feed KELP in your herds? Here in the US it is quite expensive. . . . . about four times the cost of regular feed and grain, but I have come to realize the benefits are worth the cost.

Judy

We started feeding seaweed meal after a molybdenum excess/copper issues and they certainly do better on it, but it's done nothing to address significant amounts of pinkeye in both cattle and sheep last year. Hoping this year will be less of a challenge for it.

Saw this and immediately thought of you Tim.
http://www.farmingfutures.org.uk/blog/r ... tered-cows

Thanks for the alert Tim. Think I'd better buy some Calciject! Checked my supplement - Harbros Hill Cow Breeder Rolls (82430) and they're 1.5% magnesium, but if an animal gets bullied out of their fair share...

(good link to the Magnesium Tetany article too)