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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:46 pm
by PeterO
At the side of my vegetable garden I have two large open composting bays which I am gradually filling with left over winter garden waste (broccoli/kale/cabbage) and weeds. As fast as I fill them my Dexters are emptying them (no they are not starving)! It seems like efficient recycling but is there any vegetable garden waste that shouldn't go in (rhubarb springs to mind)?
Peter
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:58 am
by Saffy
Hi Peter,
If you grow potatoes the haum or green leaf tops are extremely toxic to animals and I think the little tomato like fruits they sometimes produce I have a feeling tomato leaves might be too but I expect a far more knowledgable person will give you a definitive list soon.
Also is there a huge amount of waste? Again I am not really sure how much they can eat of what and get away with but I recall an emergency caesarian on a cow when I was a child. The cow had found her way into the orchard and eaten huge quantities of apples, the digestion could not cope, they were fermenting, she blew up like a barrage balloon and appeared drunk! During the operation there was a very strong smell of cider. Mum and baby survived but I can't remember the details as I was about about 10. It made me wonder if there were other things that are good but only in small quantities. I am sure Duncan will enlighten us.
As far as potato haum goes our neighbours cows broke onto our field of potatoes and at least one excellent friesian/holstein bit the dust, died there in our field so I dont think it took long to work, others were ill I don't know if they survived. I am not sure how the poison works whether the body can get rid of it or whether it is cumulative like rhododendron.
Stephanie
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:47 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
A very useful reply from Stephanie. Potatoes and Tomatoes are of the Solanaceae family. The green parts contain the alkaloid solanin which as Stephanie says is a very potent poison. As well as the stems and leaves, potatoes which have been exposed to light and have gone green are also poisonous. The green potato will also cause severe frothy bloat in ruminants.
For those interested in botany, the family also includes tobacco and deadly nightshade, which I don't think we would feed our cattle.
I would question the wisdom of allowing the cattle or any animal for that matter, access to what is essentially your garden rubbish, all be it organic. It would be much wiser to pick out any vegetable or grass which you know to be good feeding, and give it to them in a controlled way rather than run the risk of digestive upset due to irregular or sudden changes in feeding.
Unless you have a very large garden I would think it unlikely that there is any real benefit in feeding odd bits and pieces - better just compost it!
Even lawn mowings which might be thought of as good food going to waste, do not always behave digestively the same as grazed or even long cut grass - not quite so dangerous in cattle but can easily be fatal in horses. I do allow the householder at one of our grazing fields to put grass cuttings over the fence but he has farm managment experience and knows to do it small and regular and they clean it up ok. He would never dream of puting any pruning or cutting waste over.
Duncan
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:25 pm
by PeterO
Saffy and Duncan
The problem with horned Dexters is whether I wish to come between them and my vegetable waste! Thanks for the advice which I will heed - however, I am sure my Irish small holder predecessors fed the potatoes to the pigs and the green waste to the Dexters (no they probably didn't grow tomatoes).
Regards
Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:14 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Peter,
I suspect that our ancestors, be they Irish or Scottish, did not throw much waste about. The art of living on very little is not much practiced today.
Duncan, (who probably wastes more in a year than his greatgrandfathers discarded in a lifetime.)
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:34 am
by Sylvia
Any good goat book carries an extensive list of things which are or might be poisonous. Interesting because, contrary to the common belief that goats will eat anything, they do tend to be very selective. On the subject of poisonous plants, here in Wales laburnum grows profusely in many hedgerows which frightened the life out of us when we moved here but everyone seems very laid back about it, including our vet. Just thought I'd mention it - this is not a recommendation!
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:07 pm
by Kathy Millar
Speaking of poisonous plants, bracken fern springs to mind. My animals just love the new spring shoots but as it is a cumulative poison and my animals are kept around for many years, I live in fear of this plant. And yet when I look at the areas in the UK that are grazed regularly, there seems to be miles of the stuff. Are there no problems with it? My dairy farmer, who regularly grazes his dry cows and heifers in the woods next door doesn't even know what bracken is. Am I just paranoid?
And speaking of compost piles...I have a few manure piles in the cow paddock that are fenced in with wooden pallets and covered with plastic film. Well, one of the plastic covers has disappeared this winter and I'm hoping it didn't get eaten but I can't see any hung up on a post or tree.
Kathy :p
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:01 pm
by PeterO
Kathy
All the books say bracken is a cumulative poison but I suspect 'small amounts' are not going to kill your Dexters (at this point Duncan will scream) otherwise, looking at my adjacent farms, there would be dead livestock everywhere. Our fathers/grandfathers used dry bracken as stock bedding in the absence of straw.
Peter
Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:38 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
We now know that bracken is much nastier than our grandfathers thought. Straightforward bracken poisoning in cattle needs prolonged exposure to smallish amounts. Fortunately if there is plenty other grass etc neither sheep or cattle tend to eat it much. But if they (cattle) do, it depresses bone marrow and causes a sudden massive drop in the white blood cells, and there is a combnined effect of overwhelming bacteraemia and haemorrhages due to low numbers of platelets. This is invariably accompanied by a high fever. Death is often sudden, but the exposure has been going on for a long time. In sheep the retina is affected and in horses the nervous system and the signs are quite different.
But to me the most alarming nasty bit about bracken is its link with mouth, oesophagus, stomach and bladder cancer. We do not tend to hear much about it now but when I was at vet school many of our lecturers had been involved in research into it both here and in Africa. I believe the Japanese also suffered directly from the carcinogenic effects because they ate bracken or related ferns as a delicacy.
SO, if there is bracken in your garden don't cut it and feed it to your Dexters.
That sounds very alarmist, but given the extent of bracken it causes relatively little recognised trouble. This is due to the fact that cattle will eat very little of it unless they are very hungry. Bracken has extended its cover greatly over the last 150 years in many hill areas because of the shift from a cattel economy to sheep.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:15 pm
by Kathy Millar
I'm not sure about the cows, but I know my sheep love the new sprears of Bracken in the spring even though there is plenty of grass around. But I doubt they would touch the mature stuff unless, as you say, they are starved. I think that is typical of many poisonous plants; they are attractive when young and tender.
Kathy
Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:41 am
by Saffy
Some are probably tasty when young and tender but if my memory serves me correctly, (which it does less and less lately,)animals are more likely to eat a raggwort plant when it is dead and dry either in hay or because it has been "knocked off". Again I believe it has a cumulative effect but it is a much better known poisinous plant than most and thererfore I hope becomes less dangerous because we all dig it up carefully and burn it into oblivion on sight!
Stephanie
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:10 am
by Sylvia
Ragwort: the plant all animal keepers try to keep off their land and which local authorities delight in allowing to romp across large areas of land they are responsible for. We could be fined for allowing this injurious weed to flourish, what about them?? 