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Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:52 pm
by Kathy Millar
Hi All,
I would like to get your opinion on a topic that has been on my mind lately. I just had a conversation with a friend recently about registering your animals and her opinion was that if a breeder kept good records, then their animals could still contribute to the survival of that breed even though they were not registered. My take on all this is that if the "whatzit" isn't registered, then it's just a "whatzit".
This came up because a breeder of rare pigs doesn't like to do paperwork and we are worried that he might just throw in the towel and take the works down to the auction or butcher. My point was, if the animals weren't registered they wouldn't be worth anything, they'd just be "pigs". What do you think?
Kathy
???
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:32 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
I firmly believe that registration is very necessary for the preservation and promotion of breeds. Breed Societies are not autocratic bodies but are run by breeders for breeders, and in general they take very good care of their obligations. They maintain and monitor breed standards, and in times of crisis like the Dexter breed in UK went through in 1960's and 70's they can organise a suitable grading up programme without it being an uncontrolled free for all.
You might look on Breed Society registration as a sort of quality assurance.
But there is no need whatsoever for every calf born to be registered, or indeed for every herd to contain any registered animals if the owners do not want. But they must recognise that the calves they produce will not have the provinence that registered stock will. In most commercial breeds of any size there will be only a very small proportion of the stock registered with the breed society, and they will tend to be the ones of high genetic merit which will contribute to the long term future of the breed. Unregistered herds of say holsteins can merrily go on producing milk, or Aberdeen Angus herds producing beef. But if the beef farmer wants to sell his beef as Aberdeen Angus beef how does he provide proof they are Aberdeen Angus?
In the Dexter breed in UK I think we are now at a stage where breed numbers have increased sufficiently for it to be of no consequence to the future of the breed if some breeders no longer register stock, or if some breeders only register their best stock - that is a very good way to get some selection, which has been missing in the years when every female born was used for breeding with very few regected as below standard. There has probably been some predjudice against not registering stock in the past - I think we need to drop that now, but equally those who do not register need to be aware that they are opting out and cannot opt back in several generations later. Nor can they expect, for example, to sell at pedigree sales.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:44 am
by Martin
Hi,
I agree with Duncan about only registering our best stock, but how can this be done at birth? I have heard so many stories of people saying 'I wish I hadn't castrated that steer, as he is now such a nice beast'. There is only so much time before you have to pay overage when you register a young animal. How much time do you need before you realize that what you have is not what the breed society needs. I find it very difficult judging cattle at a very young age.
I will register any heifer born on my farm, but I will be fussy in what goes to the bull, or what I sell. We should not be afraid to send young heifers to the butcher.
Martin.
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:39 am
by Sylvia
There are problems here that I can't see being overcome. If all the registered animals are excellent examples of the various types of Dexter, and all those not registered are not there would be no problems but from my own experience I know that buying registered animals does not mean that these will be better than unregistered ones which I have also bought. And prices are very variable with not that much difference between them in many cases. If you move to a system of only registering 'the better Dexters' I agree with Martin it is not possible to be certain of this at the age calves must be registered. Also this is a subjective decision on the part of each breeder. The only thing that is certain is that dexter appears on the passport which satisfies beef producers (I assume?) and owners who want to show have to register their animals. Apart from that it is a bit of a lottery.
I'm off to sort out my 6th calf of the year, most are lads so no problems there.
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:15 pm
by Saffy
Hi Everyone,
I agree that paperwork is a pain and there is so much more paperwork to do with buying, selling and keeping any "farm" animals these days. Personally I find the pedigree side of it different, almost enjoyable in comparison, I am proud of it and I think it maked my animals a bit special in comparison with mixed breeds and it means I can do more things with them if I want to, show them for instance, ( not sure what Dexter pedigree paperwork is like as I don't have any yet, still working on the family.)
Perhaps breed societies should look at making the paperwork as simple and basic as is practical and maybe they would get and keep more members?
Stephanie
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:34 pm
by Inger
In NZ we can still register a heifer after 12months, as long as we pay double the fee. We can then register the animal up to 24 months. But after 24 months, we need to have council approval to register a animal. So if people decide an older animal really is worth registering after all, then they can still do so. Others just decide to deregister an animal that turns out to be unsuitable for breeding. On the whole, I think our system of registering animals is quite workable. It's just our poor Herd Registrar pulling His hair out, trying to train the members to fill in the registration forms properly. I think maybe we need a workshop on it, at the AGM. :laugh:
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:18 pm
by Kathy Millar
I might be a little dense here, but what is the rationale behind making it more expensive to register an older animal? Shouldn't the price break occur around 2 years of age? Might this not encourage folks to wait and see if the animal is worthy of registering? It seems to me that when you make it cheaper to register young animals (here in Canada it is under 24 months for males and under 12 months for females) then it is an incentive to register before you really know what you've got. I'm like my mom, if something is on for half price, I'll go for it!
Kathy ???
Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:32 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
The older the animal, the more chance of wrong info, either intentionally unintentionally. There is also more chance that someone will be wanting to register the animal who did not breed it, so not only is the evidence old and cold it is also second hand. When animals have been bred from not registered it also increases the chances of mistakes being made and thins can become much more complicated.
Lets look at it the other way, why not register? Or why expect the benefits of registering if you are not willing to play by the rules? I am not suggesting for one moment that you are not, I am just playing devil's advocate!!
Duncan
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:23 pm
by Inger
In NZ our registration fee is only $10 and as most of the Dexter breeders in this country only own a few Dexters, I would think that they would register most of their heifer calves. The fact is, if you are grading up (as I am), you have to register 3 generations before you get what our rule book calls a Purebred. Once you get to that stage, then you can get more choosy about which females you want to continue with. As your land size dictates. If you start out with Purebreds (which in NZ is an expensive option), then I guess you'd have to make that decision much sooner, especially if you only have a small acreage. However, if you do register a heifer and then decide not to keep her, she can still be sold on to someone else who's just starting out and may be quite happy with her. It's only $10, so even if you decide to eat her, it's not a lot to lose, is it? It keeps your options open. I don't see anything wrong with having as many registered Dexter cows available to choose from, as possible. Bulls however, are a different story.