Dexter Cattle For Sale Discussion Board

Phone 01700504788
Fax 01700504868
Email duncan.macintyre@btopenworld.com
Burnside
Ascog
Rothesay
Isle of Bute
PA20 9ET
Burnside Dexters
The Council
Dexter Cattle Society
Charolais Pavilion
Avenue M
Stoneleigh Park
Warwickshire
CV8 2RG
5th May 2013
Dear Council Member,
This letter, written with a heavy heart, is to inform you that I am resigning as a member of the Council of the Dexter Cattle Society. Many of you already know that I have been deeply unhappy with the way this council is being run for quite some time. One of the most damaging aspects of the running of The Dexter Cattle Society is the perceived need for secrecy and confidentiality, which is stifling open and honest discussion on every matter we touch as a council. In fact there are very few circumstances where the deliberations of our council need to be secret. There are such matters, but they are few and far between. However our drive for confidentiality is in effect resulting in total lack of communication with the membership, and I think our Society is in serious danger as a result of this.
Our poor communication of course is not only between Council and the Membership, it is also between council members, with our ridiculous refusal to embrace modern communications and insist on face to face meetings being the only meaningful way to conduct business. It is in my opinion, up to each council member to ensure that they are up to speed with modern communications. A method of improved email communication has taken months to get any agreement to try out its use, and despite agreement to take part in the trial over a period of months I have had no support whatever in this trial. Other methods such as Skype have been rejected.
My professional advice, always given in good faith and free to the society, has been rejected in relation to investigation of potential genetic abnormalities, and the Genetics Committee disbanded in my absence. My suggestion for an Animal Health and Welfare Committee has been rejected for the most spurious of reasons, ie, “If we have an Animal Health and Welfare Committee people with think we have problems”. Yet when a member asks Council why we have not proceeded with this I am supposed to reply despite not having been at the meeting where her letter was discussed. How can I reply?
The handling of the Original Population issue has also been mishandled with refusal of Council to accept the recommendations of its appointed committee, followed by the assertion that the committee did not exist. Meanwhile we have relied on the individual who appears likely to have supplied FANGRA with information on the breed without our knowledge to communicate on our behalf.
Finally we have a chairman who, instead of being a uniting influence responds to any questioning of matters by personal attacks and questioning of other members commitment and motivation. My commitment to the Dexter Cattle Society and dedication to the breed is well known to a large number of members, yet our chairman seeks to question this and to insult me by belittling my achievements in life as evidenced by the malicious allusion to the poem on the subject which was supplied to us in total by Mike Sinnott.
I know that there are a number of council who have shared my aims and have supported me. I apologise to those members for abandoning the struggle. My dedication to the Dexter breed will of course continue, and it may well be that I can be of help without being a member of Council, or indeed it may be possible to return to Council in happier times.
Yours sincerely,
Duncan MacIntyre

Rob's wife here:

As someone 'outside' the dexter 'thing', but with insider knowledge if you will, being married to someone with a herd of 80 and 17yrs experience in the breed, it's my opinion that much of what holds dexters back is the breed society.

Sorry to hear this from you Duncan, I'm sure it hurts, but can't say I'm surprised.

I very much see the dexter society as being it's own bizarre little world, uncoupled from the reality of the commercial side of the breed and it looks highly unattractive to us here, wouldn't touch with a bargepole. Personally, I think if dexters truly want to push forwards into a a sustainable future (and that can only be in beef production) the time is ripe for a separate, businesslike commercial organisation.

Back to Rob!

What a tragedy! I thought that all of this secrecy was a thing of the past.
As an ex Council member myself I know exactly where you are coming from. I too thought that new ideas would help the breed, but sadly the non-workers on Council stifle and out-vote any development ideas and as you say members undertaking work on behalf of Council carry more sway than those on Council.
I came to the conclusion that the Council is only interested in locking the breed in the "pet" category rather than moving it to where it should be : a serious Cattle breed filling a commercial need in modern agriculture.
I think the mere fact that this private website is the one where members keep in touch says it all.
Duncan you are a top chap and your knowledge of all that is bovine and many years of working with Dexters will leave an enormous gap in the Dexter Cattle Society.
Missing you already
Ted Neal

Welcome to the club Duncan. I resigned almost as soon as going on council and my wife did as well. Both she and I were dismayed by the secrecy thing, which we both thought was utterly ridiculous and counter-productive.

When Beryl Rutherford went on council last time, you may have noticed that she almost stopped posting which was a great loss to this board and dexterdom, in fact things have never really recovered.

Maybe it's a peculiar British thing (and that includes Scotland … at the moment ). On the American board and on the Australian one you can ask anything and get an open response, from the secretary of the society quite often.

Duncan I am so sorry that we are loosing you at a level of representation , councils are only a body of people elected to look after and make to the best of their ability recommendations on behalf of everyone out with and not to be taken as a pedestal of exclusivity . The worst thing possible for a group is to have people on board that wish to develop a clique . I am disappointed to read the posts from others that have been there and done that and according to them you are not alone in your thoughts .
It worries me now in my second year having been elected as chairman of the Scottish Group and about to host the Dexter Cattle Society AGM that a shadow is about to appear on the horizon which may slow the uptake of members wishing to come and enjoy our week-end . I urge those on council to acknowledge and correct if what is being said has truth and reignite the cooling embers allowing those they represent to get on with what we enjoy in breeding and raising the profile of the little cow with the big future DEXTERS .

I'd echo what Ted said above but I don't think the Dexter society is alone at all - most breed societies seem to be managed in a similar way these days, particularly where a strong showing element is present & the two interests conflict. I don't understand the reluctance to embrace technology & modernise which could, potentially, hugely benefit both the breed and it's breeders. This forum is a fine example of how breeders can come together, at a time when travel is expensive & time precious, across the country & even across continents.

Duncan is not alone in his despair at the way business is conducted or not on Council of our Society.
Two other resignations have already taken place since Duncan's letter and others are pending. There was more support for electronic communication than is being suggested but it was far from a majority.
I appreciate Ted's remark about a 'pet' category and as a member of a support group in NI who has taken the breed into a commercial category with Crossgar and four other commercial beef sales organisations would agree entirely about the ability of the Society to achieve these commercial targets on national basis.

We cannot afford to lose Directors of the ability of Duncan and others who are willing to contribute their professional knowlege and expertise to the Society for the sake of narrow minded and ameteur members not qualified to manage this or any other business.

Ian Simpson Council Member and I hope friend of Duncan

when will the council wake up too many people with expert knowledge have left over the years people who could drive the breed in the right way. i am fed up with the wrong type of people running this society who work being closed doors not taken any notice of the real world.not moving with the times.why can i not pay for my reg when doing it on internet.why can i not find out what you talk about at meetings in detail.why is not each area represented on the board.i dont bother to tell people who buy animals from my about the society.if you buy 2 animals and over two years they have one female that female works out costing you more to reg than its worth AI +REG+DISBUDING+MEMBERSHIP FEES X2

when will the council wake up too many people with expert knowledge have left over the years people who could drive the breed in the right way. i am fed up with the wrong type of people running this society who work being closed doors not taken any notice of the real world.not moving with the times.why can i not pay for my reg when doing it on internet.why can i not find out what you talk about at meetings in detail.why is not each area represented on the board.i dont bother to tell people who buy animals from my about the society.if you buy 2 animals and over two years they have one female that female works out costing you more to reg than its worth AI +REG+DISBUDING+MEMBERSHIP FEES X2

jems5 wrote:if you buy 2 animals and over two years they have one female that female works out costing you more to reg than its worth AI +REG+DISBUDING+MEMBERSHIP FEES X2

I'm not following your logic nor maths there? Surely that is an intrinsic problem with keeping small herds, rather than the Dexter Cattle Society itself?

As you all must know this is my private board and i did have the opportunity to delete the posts on this subject completely.....as you can see......i did not.
There are obviously 2 sides to each and every story, as there always is.
I do resent some of the members comments on the abilities of people on council, please remember we are volunteers, giving of our time freely.
On the proffersional side of things, i personally established the Linear classification scheme administered by Holstein UK who are world leaders in classification and classify all the main uk dairy breeds. The whole scheme is totally proffesional and has integrity, such a shame the members of society who wish the society to be more proffesional do not get involved and have their animals assessed.
The society have also established the Dexter Beef certification scheme, again a proffesional scheme that gains respect from other breeds.
Unfortunately the dexter breed is held back by the reluctance of its membership to take on board forward moving thoughts, i do admit that sometimes i do despare but i do still give of my time freely.
Please dont knock people who are... believe it or not, working on YOUR behalf.
Little rant over!!

I must thank everyone for their kind words and supportive responses, not only on this site but by email and phonecalls as well.
I do appreciate that this is Mark's own site, and in fact over the years I have resisted posting on matters which I thought were purely DCS business. Sadly I have had to change my mind in order to communicate to members of the DCS just what sort of atmosphere our Society Council has been operating in. Thank you Mark for leaving this thread on line.
This is a time of extremely mixed emotions for me as I do live and breath Dexters, not only my own but the breed as a whole. Whilst there is a large element of guilt at starting a domino effect, I am also hopeful that in taking such drastic action to draw attention to matter, we can persuade a significant number of open, straightforward knowledgeable members of DCS to stand for council - there will be quite a few vacancies. Dexter owners are a very diverse group, often with differing opinions and ideas, but if we can encourage an open attitude with genuine respect for our fellow members views, enormous improvements can be made in just a few months.
I have been asked by Jo to post the text of her letter here too.

Tel/Fax: 01387 850554 Breoch Park
Advice to council ignored
Dumfries
Nithsdale
DG2 8HL

Dexter Cattle Society Council
Charollais Building
Stoneleigh Park
Warwickshire

19th May, 2013


Dear Councillors,

I presume that like me you were saddened to receive Duncan MacIntyre’s resignation. He is one of the most respected members of our society; he has spent hours helping members with their queries and this is all given totally selflessly. Over the past months he has been ridiculed and his advice to council ignored, is it any wonder then that he has had enough? However, judging by an email in which we were instructed to remove his name from the council list, his resignation was accepted by the chairman with no discussion with council. Did Duncan receive a phonecall to try to persuade him to remain?

By email both John O’Neill and Mike Sinnott have also resigned; they too have been treated in an incredible manner; their plans re a breeding project were initially rubbished and then were put in jeopardy by the society’s interference. I remind all that they had secured funding for the program.
They explained the reasons for using a particular bull and council saw that it was a valid trial.
I sent an email and also had a conversation with Sue in which I explained what was and what was definitely not in our remit. Ignored.

Duncan’s email covers most of the points I would like to make however, unlike the three mentioned above, I haven’t been attacked simply ignored.

The most important issue to my mind concerns FanGr/DEFRA and their definitions regarding Dexter cattle, especially after Andrew Sheppy’s presentation which showed some of his worries. I and others had put forward a paper explaining our wish to look at the genetic figures we already have to determine firstly whether there is a definable ‘original population’ and whether the information could/should be increased for other useful purposes and in which direction we would advise council to explore. Initially this was agreed then all was retracted.
We were asked to write a letter “within four days, it is urgent” we were told. This was done and the Chairman decided not to send it!
The members of the working party were chosen as they were people who had knowledge and interest in genetics and ‘the Original Population notion’. All other members of council had already said genetics left them cold, apart that is from Carol Neilson. The only reason she was not asked to join the group was that she was already on a sizable number of committees.

Committees: these are formed for councillors to take up separate duties and then to report to council so the full council is not over burdened. They are not there for some members of council to have more authority than others.

I also believe that the membership is not receiving value for money. As far back as the steering committee, email communication was used. When Carol was in the chair we also had tele-conferences all keeping costs to council members and the society down. Instead of ironing out any snags and difficulties in the system, we have retreated to ‘face to face’ meetings only which will mean that fewer people will feel able to offer themselves for service on the council.

Members, from all parts of the country are unhappy, especially at the secrecy. Very little in our communications need to be secret and confidential; it breeds discontent in those excluded and a hightened sense of privilege in those ‘in the know’. We used to check the minutes when received electronically then alterations were discussed by email, agreed. The minutes could then be put on the website and the signing at the subsequent face to face meeting merely a formality.

I like Duncan feel that I am simply achieving nothing on this council, my emails and advice receive no reply not even an acknowledgement. When decisions are reversed rules and regulations are spouted as reasons, the situation is untenable.

Therefore, with a heavy heart, I tender my resignation.

Yours sincerely,

Jo Kemp

posted by Duncan

Please may I ask what you all hope to achieve for the Dexter breed by resigning?
Di

I am very sorry that some of you have been put in a position where you felt that your places on Council had become untenable and that you have resigned. (Probably Di - their own well-being).

With regard to comments regarding the inner workings of the DCS then I would say that the DCS is a broad church and has to represent the views of all of it’s members – those that show, sell beef, are self-sufficient in beef and dairy products, keep them as pets and any other combination. The Dexter is a dual-purpose breed and therefore does not excel in the quantities of milk or beef it produces. Commercial farmers cannot make a living (without government handouts) from milk nor beef from animals that are specially bred for the purpose so what is the point in corrupting yet another dual purpose native breed?

On the issue of secrecy. I am reminded that the membership voted at the last AGM to do away with the publication of Minutes. Yes, it’s true - the membership, (myself included temporarily distracted by a family problem) sleepwalked into secrecy.

Regarding the viability of the Dexter as a serious commercial prospect for beef production (niche market) – it is the membership itself over here that is hampering efforts. In order to promote the product first you have to comply with the law (tax, health regs etc) and the sad fact is, that there were/are quite a few who were/are operating ‘under the radar’ and saw/see no economic justification for raising their heads above the parapet especially with margins so tight.

I agree this refusal to embrace technology in all its forms is counter-productive.

With regard to the ‘wrong people on Council and their abilities’ I would say that the majority who volunteer do so because they believe they can ‘make a difference’. However, I do have concerns about the number of projects/schemes over the years that have been initiated (for the best of intentions) but have not been embraced by the membership.

I would like to express my support for Duncan. I have no knowledge of Council goings-on, but Duncan has been extremely helpful and encouraging to me as a new Dexter-owner and I am very grateful. The fact of his, and other, resignations is of concern.

As a side-note, we own Dexters as land management tools, with low key beef sales to contribute to costs; somewhere between pet and commercial, but another use of a great breed.