Dexter Cattle For Sale Discussion Board

From January 2013,we are being moved into a one year testing period from our current four year testing period. Although I have looked briefly at the DEFRA website, as usual it is not that easy to negotiate and I am wondering if anyone can give me a quick answer to the following? As I understand it, if we move cattle from a one year to a four year area, they have to be tested. What about if we move them from a one year into another one year without entering a four year zone? I am hoping that I can move them without testing as it is literally two miles down the road but I suspect that I may have to test before any movements?

Also do we test before every show that we want to go to, or one test which then covers the following 60 days movements?

This is all new to us and I want to make sure I am doing it all right from January onwards. My next step will of course be to contact DEFRA direct but sometimes they just read the rules out without answering direct questions.

Anyhow, any suggestions welcome.

from Natasha

Hi Natasha,

If you have not had a TB breakdown you will have to test prior to moving off your holding and you will then have to move cattle within 60 days, so you would have to pre-movement test even if moving a short distance down the road. There may be links, but you will have to seek advice about this. We moved our herd under licence to their summer grazing following a severe interpretation test in the spring - they all got through OK.

The new measures being introduced on 1 January 2013 include an extension of the region where farms must be tested yearly for TB: 10 new counties will be included across south-west, west and central England. The new rules on cattle movement mean that, in all cases, farmers who have had a case of TB in their farm will not be allowed to bring new cattle in until the rest of the herd has been tested for TB and a vet has carried out an assessment. In addition, farmers now have 30 days, down from 60 days, to move cattle that test negative for TB out of a TB breakdown farm.

As regards testing for showing you will need to seek advice from DEFRA, but I think these new rules will make it more difficult to attend shows.

Best wishes

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

We're one year testing, like you went from 4 to 1 overnight. TB spreading up the valley and on it's way north.

As far as I know we have to have everything tested before movement, then move within 60 days, except to a red market or direct to slaughter.

Got our annual TB test tomorrow. Really looking forward to it! All our cows are well in calf and if any go down I'm going to be very unhappy.

Eventually it'll be the whole of the UK.

Take a look at this active map of the spread of bovine TB:

http://www.tbfreeengland.co.uk/TB-Graph ... animation/

Good luck clive, I hope it all goes o.k. I just had a letter from DEFRa this morning confirming I was still in a four year zone and telling me my next test would be between 2013 - 2016

I looked at the map and its scary.

Good Luck Clive for the testing.

How are those Dangus working out???

Denise wrote:Good Luck Clive for the testing.

How are those Dangus working out???

Cheers Denise. Have to say I'm just resigned to it whatever happens.

The Dangus have grown well. So far had just three calves to a black Dexter bull that carried blakc, red and dun, (2 red calves and 1 black), now got a whole batch for calving Feb-Mar to a Stabiliser bull who's a nice chap, white-faced with scurs. I've got 9 Dexters in calf to him as well. Most of the Dangus's are very chunky, so we'll have to see how they get on calving. The bull is easy-calving but he's also quite a lump!

Everything clear, not even worth measuring except just one, and he was inconclusive. Haven't got a clue what this means, will wait to hear from DEFRA. Vet said the one steer will have to be tested again in 60+ days, and then he may be clear, inconclusive again, or a reactor! Vet also said we are likely to be clear to carry on as normal as long as the one steer is isolated. I won't isolate him because go berserk, so he'll be kept with some friends.

Vet's there with a pair of callipers trying to measure a lump on the neck of a steer that's going bananas. What a great test, really fills you with confidence .

What's the meaning of a test that is supposed to tell you whether a beast has TB or not, that might reverse itself in the next 8 weeks?

The "tuberculin" injected into the thickness of the skin the first day of a TB test is protein derived from culture of TB bacteria - avian TB on the top, and bovine TB on the bottom. The two are done because avian tb, which does no harm to cattle or people, will cause a cross reaction with bovine tb and so a number of apparent reactors to bovine tb are expained by the cattle having been exposed to avian tb. In the UK the double test has always been used and has probably saved the slaughter of a lot of cattle only affected by avian tb. Whether or not an animal passes the test, is inconclusive, or fails depends on the results at the two sites. To make matters more complicated there are a number of non pathogenic (ie do not cause any disease) bacteria which cattle can form antibodies to which will also cause a lump at a tb test site, and I think it is thought that they may be responsible for some minor reactions which are interpreted as inconclusive, and this reaction may reduce in a few weeks and be negative on re-test. It can also happen that an animal is exposed to tb in another animal in the herd but manages to fight the infection off, but shows some antibodies without being infected. These may explain why some reactors show no evidence of tb when slaughtered, but unfortunately it is better to slaughter a few which do not have active disease than to miss some genuine tb cases by making the test more lenient.

Historically the tb test was adequate to eradicate the disease from almost the whole of the uk, but a few pockets remained in the late 1960's/early 70's. Even then it was suspected that badgers were a reservoir of infection, but the disease broke out of that small area and I believe it is due to government weakness in grasping a few nettles, mainly the resistance from the public to deal with pockets of infected badgers, and resistance from farmers in accepting very strict movement restrictions in infected areas. With badgers becoming protected, and cattle numbers in individual herds increasing, combined with much easier movement of livestock than in days of old, the disease has been allowed to spread over much bigger distances than badgers would explain (few seen hitching lifts on the M6, but cattle trucks common) and become entrenched in more and more areas not helped by density of badgers. Do the badger supporters realise the suffering of infected badgers? I suspect not, because the seriously ill ones will die slowly underground.

Rant over meantime

Duncan

Duncan MacIntyre wrote:Do the badger supporters realise the suffering of infected badgers? I suspect not, because the seriously ill ones will die slowly underground.

That's the key point that completely fail to get. I really don't think they understand.

The steer that is inconclusive, was on the borderline of being a reactor. And we did have one cow that had a big avian lump which the vet said did not matter. Hopefully on the re-test this steer will be OK.

If TB is cattle to cattle mainly or only, then we must have cattle that can fly round here because we're double-fenced and a closed herd except for (tested) bulls every few years.

There are several websites where TB is under active discussion. Its an extremely emotive subject and many cattle farmers are very angry about the situation. Unfortunately, the "so called" wildlife supporters have the upper hand and most farmers are very disappointed by the apparent lack of support they receive from NFU, government and everyone else. Researchers seem to change their opinions frequently and generally recommend that more research is needed - which many farmers interpret as cashing in on the TB gravy train.
No-where else in the world has attempted to control bovine TB by just shooting cattle. Its essential to control all potential vectors including deer, wild boar, alpaca's and badgers. Badger support groups are well financed and have access to the press. They threaten violence or arson on those who attempt to carry out government directed controls in the knowledge that they are safe from prosecution whilst farmers are sitting targets for abuse and attack and rural police are so stretched that they are essentially impotent. The RSPCA directors have publicly supported the Badger protection groups. The government classifies alpaca's as pets and so they are not tested and are free of movement controls - I suspect because the government doesn't want to take on the cost of testing them - although some large alpaca flocks have been slaughtered due to animals suffering from actual TB and a prominent Alpaca owner has been infected with bovine TB herself.
Its a bitter and very messy situation that is traumatic and expensive for us all.

Thank you Robert & Alison,

We have only been moved in to a one year testing due to the change in policy by DEFRA, no cases of TB in our cattle. I am glad I checked as if I move cattle across the road from one field to another I will have to test the cattle first! Absolutely crazy as they can literally see each other from their fields. Anyhow, I will make sure that I try and limit any movements to help with cost and too many tests on the cattle.

I agree that the showing season will be affected by these changes and we will certainly have to cut down on the number that we attend next year which is a shame especially for the smaller shows that rely on livestock as an attraction.

Natasha

If your fields are close together, can you apply for the holding numbers to be linked? I rent adjoining fields from two different owners, and so I can move cattle from one to the other without pre-movement tests. But its only a matter of opening a gate, no roads to cross.

It may be different in 1yr testing zones but I have a friends fields on my holding number and its approx 6 miles away as the crow flies. Ring up your local office and check.

Not to be gloomy but I think the days of linking fields has finished. I recollect a notification saying that as from July this year that no further applications for SOA will be approved and CTS links will not be renewed

Debra, you are right. There will not be any new links issued and any in place at the moment will expire within the next year. We now have two new temporary holding numbers where we graze the cattle during the summer and may have to have a third one for where we keep them in the winter. Our actual holding number applies to our address which will never have cattle on it so it is a crazy system. If in doubt, i will of course contact BCMS etc before moving any cattle which won't be until March at the earliest.

Natasha