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Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:32 am
by SueH
Hi all
We are about to have our first steer done ready to sell. The butcher at the abbotoir mentioned about the labelling on the meat. As we are selling direct to the public using a 'box' system does anybody know how we would stand about labelling.
Do we need to mark it up with a best before date and ingredients etc, or can we just mark up the cut and weight?
Help please!!
Sue
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:43 pm
by Louise Badcock
If you are doing just the odd one like me then it all goes on the kitchen table and people come and get what they want. The various cuts come from the abattoire in marked boxes such as best braising steak or brisket. Thecustomers take it away in boxes or carrier bags I have a price list and individual lists to show what folks have got They calculate it and weigh it out themselves so it is all fair and obvious. Make sure you put away what you want for yourself first. (like the fillets)
Louise
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:35 pm
by domsmith
Labelling can be very complicated, but i dont think you need to worry too much.
i would have thougtht a description, eg sirloin steak. a weight and a use by should cover you. you can then add your own prices.
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:40 pm
by Broomcroft
I think if you are selling boxes that were sealed by the abattoir/butcher, then the only labelling needed is for the whole box, although you might like to stick labels on the individual cuts so people know what they are. Obviously, before the box is sealed! Our butcher uses special tape with their number on and we are not allowed to cut it, which of course we carefully abide by :p.
But this might be a Welsh thing as our people are in Wales. Don't know.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1279892429
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:22 pm
by bjreroberts
Louise - I like the sound of your method of selling, saves all the hassle of sorting and packing!
I have taken the following from a Worcetershire County Council Trading Standards flyer:
Raw meat and poultry must be sold by net weight.
Stamped trade scales must be used and sales must be made by the kilogram. The unit price i.e. the price per kilogram must be displayed either next to the goods themselves, if they are on display, or on a list that is clearly visible to the consumer.
Pre-packed meat must be marked with a weight, a unit price and a selling price. If it was packed on your own premises it does not need a use by or best before date although it is always good practice to provide this
information to your customers.
Cuts of meat must be accurately described e.g. sirloin, belly pork etc. If you make your own sausages or burgers you must be aware that there are specific legal requirements concerning meat and fat content and the use of colours and preservatives.
In addition all meat products, including pies and pasties, burgers, sausages etc. whether sold loose or pre-packed must be marked with a declaration of their actual meat content calculated at the mixing bowl stage.
Beef Labelling (including Veal from 19 January 2009)
Special labelling rules apply to beef whether it is sold loose or pre-packed.
All fresh or frozen beef must be marked with the following information:
- The identification number of the slaughterhouse at which it was killed, i.e.The EC number.
- The identification number of the cutting plant at which it was prepared.
- The country of birth, rearing and slaughter of the animal
- A traceability number that will enable the animal or group of animals from which the meat comes to be identified.
Fresh or frozen minced beef must be marked
with:
- The country of origin
- The country of production
- A traceability number as above
These rules are designed to ensure that all beef can be traced back to the individual animal or group of animals from which it originated.
My abattoir also butchers and packs for me, so all the meat is in polystyrene trays, clingfilmed with a small price type label containing the data required above and a separate one with the cut of meat.
I do now supplement this with my own label, with the weight and price, although despite registering Trading Standards have never been out to check it! Before that I simply sold it as a box or proportion of an animal.
Edited By bjreroberts on 1279895054
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:45 am
by AlisonKirk
Keep it simple:
For pub/restaurants: primal cuts, vacuum packed with the abattoir number / type of cut on label. Delivered fresh. The abattoir weigh each cut & write the individual weights on relevant box. I then use these weights to prepare the invoice.
For private customers: packed as specified, each item labelled with abattoir number / type of cut. Blast frozen at abattoir & kept in home freezer (but not for long as it soon goes!). Weighed as required & delivered direct to customer.
We do not handle / pack the raw meat as this would come under a different set of rules.
You need full traceability and so the cutting plant number is essential on every cut. All our customers receive an A4 sheet detailing our management policy; restaurants display this within their premises, as does the butcher we supply.
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:49 pm
by Saffy
A local eatery is interested in some of our Dexter beef, we are to talk about price and quantity tomorrow and I don't want to put them off - or be too cheap! Will a restaurant expect a cheaper rate?
(They have had two joints to try out, one from the front end - a fore rib and one from the back end - a piece of top side, which have gone down well and we are getting a very nice meal out in exchange.)
So I expect those will be the cuts they are after.
Stephanie
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:28 pm
by bjreroberts
This is something I am trying to get to grips with as well. I have just been revising my retail prices and also want to start some commercial sales as well.
Previous posts / the DCS beef marketing info have talked about prices per kg, with retail around £10.50/kg and the cost of production to a packed state £5.00 - £6.00. Assuming a 30% gross margin off retail you would be looking at £7.35.
This doesn't help with individual cut prices though! I have looked on the web and all I can find is one from a halal butcher in Scotland http://www.najafhalalmeats.co.uk. I have asked my local greasy cafe to get me the prices from Bookers. I then was planning to aim at around a 20% premium to these.
From my ananlysis of 10 Dexter Beef producers, the average retail for Topside is £12.05/kg, so deducting 30% gross margin would be £8.44/kg. Going the other way from Najaf's £5.40/kg and adding a 20% premium would be £6.48/kg.
However, I do think the Dexter average for Topside is high and I can understand why as I have no trouble shifting it unlike the secondary roasting joints. If you look at a large supermarket's price and add a 20 % premium for Dexter and then knock of 30% gross margin you will get around £7.12/kg.
So my I would expect them to be looking for a price of £6.48 - £7.12/kg for Topside. But then this is just my pricing analysis and not real life!
I hope someone who actually sells commercially can help.
Edited By bjreroberts on 1285170061
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:16 pm
by Broomcroft
I think that cost figure is very low. The slaughter/butchery/transport alone could be half the lower figure! I'd say well over £7 a kilo if you take everything into account.
As prices stand at the moment, for a fairly typical steer or heifer, you need to sell for £6.55 a kilo average just to end up with the same amount of money that the butcher would pay you (assuming the customer collects the meat). A small animal may cost more per kilo.
Personally, I'd be looking for somewhere around £8.00 - 9.00 for a whole carcass. More if split into different cuts. But I haven't sold direct for some time now so out of touch, but that would be my starting point.
Supermarket beef was averaging £9.74 last year, don't know what it is this year.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1285172194
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:48 pm
by AlisonKirk
We're charging £9.05 for whole carcass to businesses. Individual prices (eg Topside up to £9.54kg for smaller joints).
One or two local pubs will take whatever I've got...... £8.36kg for stew/braise/shin (when available). Silverside catering size @ £8.90kg.
The comments about the beef have been fantastic and now we're established pubs are keen to have our beef, but you need to encourage chefs to have the beef - as soon as they've tasted it, they're hooked!! At these prices customers are returning.
I've just been into Tesco and was approached by a chef I visited 12 months ago at a local pub....I'd heard nothing from them since. He has moved to another local pub and wants to put Dexter beef on the menu....I'll be visiting them soon.
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:46 pm
by Broomcroft
Here's a list of average prices for cuts for those farms that advertise on the web:
Rolled Sirloin £25.83
Silverside £12.43
Toprump £13.09
Topside £12.83
Brisket £7.86
Fore Rib on the bone £13.25
Slow Roast £12.75
Fillet £38.34
Minute steak £13.58
Rib-Eye steak £22.75
Rump £17.87
Sirloin £25.05
T-Bone £21.25
Braising Steak £8.63
Minced Beef £7.19
Shin Beef £6.80
Skirt £6.98
Stewing £7.51
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:59 pm
by domsmith
We sell to farm shops etc and that easy! just give them a discount off the face price.
restaurants are more tricky. i find they are all scared off by initial price enquiries. booker ect are so cheap for beef. you need your chef to look beyond that.
we negotiate by cut and sell only what we need to the restaurants, usually shoulder.
Saffy, why not ask your chef what he wants to pay? if he comes out and says i can afford £9 for topside then you havent got anything to worry about. if he says £6 then you can say hoping for more and see were it goes. but dont sell anything cheap that you can easily sell elsewhere.
writing this has made me realise we sell virtually no beef to the trade, i will have to look at if we should.
for reference our trade veal prices are:
striploin £18
topside £10.9
rump cuts £10
shoulder £6.5
rack and chines £13 includes t bones
if we sell the whole beast trade, we still make a healthy margin.
probably no help
dom
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:52 pm
by Saffy
Thank you so much everyone for the above advice, it really helped!
The chef was quite open about what he was already paying and actually showed me the bill from two of his suppliers, one of which was the top place to get it from in our area - in my opinion.
So we agreed on a £1 per Kilo above what they were already paying to the top supplier for "ordinary" beef because Dexter is a premium product, he was happy with that and so was I.
The restaurant didn't buy a huge amount but the chef himself bought quite a few joints from front and backend, he was very enthusiastic about the meat, he couldn't keep the smile off his face. He was impressed with the colour, texture, feel, quantity and quality of fat and even the smell of the meat and I hope it is the start of a good relationship with him and the restaurant. He is a really good chef and will present our meat beautifully.
We aren't looking to sell much at the moment so we only approached the one place. The reason for doing it is to see how it goes and just start selling our Dexter quietly as we will have more to sell as time goes on.
Stephanie
Edited By Saffy on 1285358050
Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:56 pm
by Saffy
We have had some feed back about the beef that went to the restaurant - they liked it and so did the customers and the owner asks when we will have some more. Hopefully they will have more next time. The chef is about to be on TV later this year in a programme called Secret Supper Club - something like that, on Channel 4, pity he isn't cooking our beef, or at least not to my knowledge - now that would be a nice surprise!
Stephanie
Edited By Saffy on 1287251951
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:23 pm
by AlisonKirk
Saffy - one of our chefs started by taking both fillets, sirloins, rumps, ribs, 1 x whole chuck, all shins, 1 x topside, 6 x mince. He does pay more than other chefs because he's not taking the whole carcass.
Recently we have gradually increased the cuts he takes to include all the brisket & 1 x catering size silverside joint. On Friday I mentioned the rolled shoulder joints -he is keen to include these on his next order before Christmas.
The beef he doesn't take is sold on to private customers / or a pub in the next village.
Regards
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters