Page 1 of 2
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:54 am
by Broomcroft
I would like to change the wording on various websites that say "smallest UK breed" to "smallest European breed", or "smallest breed in Europe".
So the question is, are Dexters the smallest breed in Europe?
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:02 pm
by Tim Watson
Wikipedia says 'Dexter cattle are the smallest of the European cattle breeds' so it must be true!
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:02 am
by Broomcroft
It's actually pudsers post that made me realise that statements like smallest British cattle, or smallest cattle in the UK might exclude Éire, where they came from!!! Looking at Wikipedia, the only term I can find that has Éire as part of the group is "British Isles". According to Wikipedia (or whoever wrote it!) even slight variations like British Islands, means the political grouping!!!
Anyhow, it's as clear as mud, so I thought that "smallest European cattle" would remove all doubt, because at least we know where Europe is. Dexter Beef Online also does not include Éire simply because the map I got originally was a politic one, i.e. UK, and I thought I put that right.
The cattle I was wondering about, that may possibly be smaller are Heren, Heck and another one I can't find now and have forgotten the name, something like Hirwelder, a mottle cow from central Europe with a white face like a Hereford.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1260086636
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:20 pm
by Broomcroft
Found the cattle I forgot....
"Hinterwald Cattle (in German: Hinterwälder-Rind) are an old local breed of cattle in the black forest. There is a breed association in Germany and also for some years in Switzerland. The cows are small, their height is only 115 to 125 cm, with a weight of 380 to 480 kg, making them the smallest breed of cattle still extant in Central Europe."
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:39 pm
by Saffy
OK - so what shall we do? Are we going to have to assassinate them Clive 
:D :D :D
Stephanie
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:47 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
I have just done a skim through "Cattle Breeds of the World" published by MSD in 1985. It is a bit inconsistent in the information given, but interesting to look at the weights given as well as the heights, and think of the weight and height some of our Dexters are getting to these days. There are Dexter bulls out there over 125cm and weighing almost 700kg.
How do we judge the smallest breed, on the average (which we don't know), or the upper or lower limits, and on height or weight or a combination?
Here is a little list, not very tidy I am afraid.
Finncattle a modern amalgamation of North, East and West varieties,
cows 122cm, 430kg bulls 625kg, 127cm,
Blacksided Trondeim and Nordland old Norwegian mountain breed,
average 117cm at withers, cows 550kg, bulls 850kg
Icelandic -??
Icelandic Galloway cows average 325-400kg, bulls 400-500kg
Telemark cows 320-400kg, 121cm bulls 750-900kg
Shetland cows 100-110cm, 300-350kg
Jersey cows 117cm 375kg bulls 125cm 650kg
Suksun modern Russian breed cows 370-380kg 119 cm at withers bulls about 550kg
Kazakh Witeheaded – from English and Uraguayan Herefords and native Kazakhstan cattle, recognised breed from 1950, height not known but bulls only 500kg
Breton Black Pied cows 115cm 450kg, bulls 120cm 750kg
Rendena Italian breed, cows 118cm 370kg, bulls 124cm 490kg
Cachena Spain/Portugal cows 112cm 255kg, bulls 114cm 375kg
Yurino cows 120cm 370-470kg bulls 800kg
Carpathian Busa cows average 115cm
Rumanian Busa 100-108cm 150-280kg
Yugoslav Busa cows average 104cm 230-270kg bulls average 115cm 340-430kg
Albanian Busa 100cm cows about 200kg
Greek Shorthorn 100-114cm, 200-350kg
Hungarian Brown cows 118cm 280kg
Hinterwald cows 119cm 400kg, bulls 124cm 675kg
Herens cow 119cm 450-500kg bulls 122cm 600-650kg
Aosta Black Pied – no sizes but similar to Herens which is also a fighting COW (not bull)
Pinzgau ???
Highland cows average 105cm, 500kg bulls 120-130cm, 625kg
Dexter 100-110cm cow 300-350kg bull 106-121cm 400-500kg
Kerry cow average 122cm 370kg bull 550kg
Bulgarian Grey/Iskur type cows 115cm 400-500kg
Mursi strain of Grey Steppe ??
Greek Steppe cows 110-115cm 245-285kg
Mayumbe from Nigeria, not European of course but cows 85-90cm 130-150kg
There is a remarkable variation in the relation of height and weight, some breeds are much less beefy than others in relation to their height.
Duncan
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:31 pm
by Broomcroft
Thanks Duncan. Looking through your figures I think overall they are probably are the smallest, so I'm going to go with it. No-one has challenged the Wiki entry.
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:05 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Clive,what about some of the Busa breeds, only 100cm and 200kg for a cow? Trouble is we don't know if these are average or limits, and what is the average for a dexter anyway? Looking at the weights of some of the smaller breeds I think they might give most Dexters a run for their money. Dexters are getting bigger and should not be in my opinion.
Duncan
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:16 pm
by Broomcroft
Never heard of Busa, just looked and they are really small. I think I better stick to British Isles Duncan, or one of the smallest breeds in Europe, or just a small breed. I'll think on it.
Dexters are getting bigger I feel. I have heard of 300kg (and more) deadweights from steers quite a few times. If they don't stay small, it doesn't make any sense to me. It's what they are. It would be like having dairy Herefords. The size issue is actually why we are no longer pedigree. I am surprised that there is no effort at some sort of control. With beef taking off, the size is surely set to continue to go up further unless there is an incentive to do otherwise, as there was/is in the show ring. But the show ring won't have any effect in this respect.
For additional size, I prefer to cross, so I've got an Angus for 70% of my herd and a little back non-chondro bull for the pure dexters.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1260123540
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:59 pm
by Minnie
Aren't those Busa cattle fascinating... when I read this about them.
It is also said that this breed is very clean as they defacate in one place only compared to other cattle which go anywhere.
They're the alpacas of the cattle breeds.
Hmmm there's some interesting cattle in the old breeds, that's for sure.
Vicki
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:54 am
by Saffy
Ponies will do this sometimes! We had an exmoor that always plopped in the one back coner of the stable. The stable was a very old one with stone slab flooring so the urine drained quite well from the straw bed. My enterprising son put a large bucket in that back corner and that was most of his cleaning out done!
Stephanie
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:02 am
by bjreroberts
Well this makes it official now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11321006 a Dexter is the smallest cow in the world according to the Guiness Book of Records.
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:47 am
by natmadaboutdexters
Fame at last for the little Dexter!
Natasha 
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:56 pm
by pudser
Interesting ,I think most Irish people have no problem with the term the British Isles but when the Lions are referred to as the British Lions it does grate.Interestingly We never refer to Ireland as Eire but as the Republic of Ireland though our passports say Eire.Noone can explain it to me but it may reflect the fact that people from northern ireland are entitled to Eire passports.Our old friend Margaret Thatcher always referred to us as Eire.
Eiru,Banba and fodla were three Goddesses of the Tuatha De Dannan and when the milesians invaded and defeated the Tuatha De Dannan the Goddesses requested that the country be called after them which it frequently is(was) in song and verse.
I hope I have n't confused it too much but Dexters are certainly the smallest bovines in the Republic of Ireland >
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:03 am
by Denise
So now we should be calling them naturally occurring smallest breed of cattle in the Birish Isles????
please remember I'm only a poor Aussie from Downunder !!!! I'll put my flame suit on now but !!!