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Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:31 pm
by Mark Bowles
This afternoon i have lost a healthy short 5 month old heifer to staggers, not very pleasant. We got some magnesium into her main artery and then some under the skin as she was not very big and the dosage was a bit unknown, she did not repond so we gave her some more into the artery, this is 10% solution not the heavy stuff, she then died.
Just a warning to keep on the lookout, i thought youngstock like that were pretty safe, i was wrong. The group she was with had a hi-mag lick in the field. We have had 3 cases now in the 10 years we have been on this farm, the others were 4 or so years ago and older cows, we caught them in time and saved them.
We always carry magnesium solution and a flutter valve, just in case.
I am gutted, she was a really nice show potential heifer, still, as they say, livestock=deadstock!
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:25 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Hello Mark,
sad news indeed. Staggers is a most distressing thing, such a struggle trying to save them and the life hangs in the balance. It does happen in calves but much less often than older cattle. Was the calf still suckling a high yielding cow - if so the diet would be large proportion milk. Is your grass growing as expected? In this part of the world and I think in the West Country as well it is very very slow this year because of the cold.
I always try to have a magnesium lick out for cows as the grass begins to grow and hay is cut back, and when hay or silage feeding stops I give them a few weeks with magnesium rolls as well. Not a big feed, just a pound or so per head. This year my yearling ones are getting some too to get them used to coming to feed and so easier to catch, but to be honest the grass is growing so slow they are needing the little bit of cake too.
Duncan
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:43 pm
by ann
Duncan can maybe agree or disagree with the following, I have always been led to believe that cows take very badly to having magnesium straight into arteries, i know my local dairy herd lost a cow this way and my vets who are primarily horse vets seem to be of the same opinion. 
my commiserations to you Mark, i don't think it matters how good the animals is, its always hard to lose one this way.
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:04 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
My usual treatment for a cow with uncomplicated staggers is a bottle of Calcium/Magnesium mix into the vein, followed by a bottle of 25% Magnesium Sulphate under the skin.
I expect Mark was injecting into the vein, not an artery. It can be done very carefully, giving extremely slowly, and only a small dose, followed by more under the skin. The Ca/Mg mix is generally thought to be safer, and usually raises the blood Mg enough to set things right whilst the bigger dose given under the skin takes time to be abosorbed but gives a better boost to the Magnesium reserves.
Duncan
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:26 am
by Mark Bowles
The calf was already down and fitting when we found her, the other 2 cases we had we caught very early on when they were still standing but lethargic and slightly padding the ground with their back feet. I assume yesterday we were simply too late.
We have 3 fields that have been converted from arable 8-10 years ago, their k (potassium) levels are around 6-6.2 according to my latest soil samples. When the K levels are at that rate it "locks in" the magnesium so it is unavailable to the livestock. Our other fields are traditional pasture and have been for decades so the K levels are under 2 which releases the magnesium so we don't get a problem. Thats where the comments on lush grass come from, good grass growth = good high K levels, - slower grass growth, as in slightly poorer pasture = lower K levels and magnesium release.
I have had to do soil samples for my HLS entry so i know each fields condition, i would reccommend sampling to anyone, just so you know what you have. Costs about £12.00 per sample,contact your agromonist ( did i spell that right).
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:10 am
by AlisonKirk
Mark - Very upsetting for you and for the calf's dam. The dam of the calf we lost did not settle for some time, even though she was with her usual family group.
Several years ago, we lost a 3/4 month old heifer calf which was certainly quite happy when we checked them at 7.30am. By lunch time we had a phone call to say a calf was fitting - we got there within a short time just as she died.
She had a swelling under her throat & we assumed it was caused by either a bee sting or perhaps it was an adder bite. No further problems since.
Regards
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:20 am
by strawberriesclint
Hi Mark
Just read about your case of staggers, i am so sorry, i take it it was one of the ones we looked at yesterday.
My sympathies
cyndy
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:24 am
by Saffy
Beryl Rutherford told me about losses of calves to staggers and insisted on Mag Rolls, she said it was unusual but heartbreaking if it happened. We feed a High Mag Roll to all the Dexters. We get it from Mole Valley Feeds.
Stephanie
Edited By Saffy on 1274001916
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:57 am
by Tim Watson
Firstly, Mark, very sorry to hear about what happened. It hasn't happened to us so I don't know what it will be like but I can imagine the sense of frustration and loss.
Well now Stephanie has mentioned it, whenever I met Beryl (for the short period I knew her) she always beat me over the head about feeding them a handful of Suckler Cow Rolls daily to make sure that they got enough mag. She had apparently lost one to staggers and had become something of a zealot about it not happening again and she believed that suckler cow rolls were the way to go.
If ever I forget I always turn round and go back to do it as I am sure she would be scowling at me otherwise!
However, from what I understood of Mark's earlier post we may not be at risk anyway as all the land we have is old established grass which the local farmers cannot remember having been anything else. I guess the only way to be sure is to do the soil checks to make sure that the mag is being released?
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:44 am
by Saffy
Well Tim - that was my thinking exactly but I lost a Woodmagic cow on just that type of grass and at the beginning of November when her calf was about 4 months old.
So I think Beryl probably beat me even harder than you about it after that - it worked though didn't it!!! :;):
Stephanie
Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:50 am
by Broomcroft
I think it's correct that white clover in the leys will give far more minerals to the cattle generally, especially magnesium. The clover will also act as a warning in that if your soil is deficient in magnesium, the clover will be distressed at the edge of the leaves. Too much clover and you'll be getting bloat though.
PS. (added later), the clover needs to be the medium or big sized for the cattle to benefit. The small low-lying clovers only good for sheep really.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1274007256
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:32 am
by wagra dexters
We use tetany licks but only in the spring flush. Others use a bagged product called Causmag, mixed into a solution and poured over hay. Some cows may not get their share of lick but we haven't found this to be a problem when enough blocks are placed about the paddocks.
Beryl said the problem was becoming much less specific to any particular season in her area so she guarded against it, using mag rolls as a matter of course.
Margaret
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:23 am
by Mark Bowles
I have not had chance to look into it yet but do these mag rolls contain lots of protein etc or just a low protein way of getting the magnesium into the cattle?. i ask as i don't want to feed my cows any more protein than they are getting thru the grass, they can get fat anyway,so if the rolls are just carriers for the mag then that would be ok
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:44 am
by Tim Watson
Here is a copy of the label from the Mole Valley Suckler Cow Rolls (I tried scanning it but it wasn't readable so here goes!)
Oil 4.3%
Protein 18%
Fibre 9.9%
Ash 11.1%
Moisture 14.5%
Vit A 10000 i.u./kg
Vit D3 2000 i.u./kg
Vit E - alpha tocopherol acetate 60 i/u./kg
Selenium - sodium selenite 0.6 mg/kg
Mag 1.52%
Copper - cupric sulphate 51 mg/kg
The label goes on the say the following:-
This is a complementary feedstuff for feeding to preganant or lactating beef suckler cows only. It must be fed in conjunction with roughage at 0.5 to 2.0Kg/head/day, depending upon the quality of roughage, season and state of the cows reproductive cycle. It is important to ensure the correct intake of nutrients, especially magnesium, when grazing Spring and Autumn grass. DO NOT FEED TO SHEEP.
Feed materials in descending order by weight
25%-10% inclusion: Barley, Rape Seedext (low in glucosinolate), Wheatfeed, Palm Kernel exp, 10% - 0% inclusion: Sunflower ext, Beans, Mol;asses, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Salt, Citrus Pulp, Vitamins and Trace Elements.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:48 am
by Tim Watson
Apologies, I meant to add that when I researched these at MVF and saw that they were for pregnant or lactating cows only I queried this with Beryl.
She told me to ignore that and to feed to all of them, some everyday, and not to be tempted to put a lick down as a) you don't know if they have had any and b) they can attract badgers.
So, it is practical for some of us with smaller herds but individually feeding them with a larger herd I would think is a non starter. I suppose you would just have to put them into a trough and hope that everyone got some.