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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:25 am
by stew
have had some good results with feeding rolled barley
and foder beet along with haylidge to my fatteners
will be trying maize this winter seems the dexters do well with no concentraits
what do you feed ?
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:07 am
by Broomcroft
We usually just feed silage / haylage with loads of large white clover in it and also graze the aftermath which is also high energy. It comes out about 13-14% protein and high in energy. They finish well on it. But this year, because of the weather, my forage couldn't be made till late, and it's value will be right down so I'm using a little rolled barley at the moment. But next week I'm changing over to a finishing blend containing wheat, barley, oats, beans, GM-free soya, maize together with grazing the grass/clover where most of the finish will come from.
Going to put 25 acres of red clover/grass mix in next year and hopefully make hay out of a second cut (famous last words) so that it reseeds itself. I am worried about if spreading though because one farmer I know says everyone he supplies with muck gets as much red clover as he does where he seeded it !!! Apparently it's OK to graze the aftermath with cattle if it's short.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1255860654
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:20 pm
by AlisonKirk
Hi Clive
Nice ration. However, don't forget Dexters utillise food much better than other breeds. A commercial cattle farming friend wishes he could fatten his cattle off grass/silage - feed costs are becoming too prohibitive.
Our cattle will finish off grass/silage, but they are not big animals. I know a plus selling point for us is the fact our cattle do not receive concentrates, which once fed, you will lose the 'naturally rich Omega 3' selling point.
According to our vet, there has been a huge increase in the number of caesarian sections carried out on autumn calving cows because of the abundance of grass this year. Any cattle who have had access to good grazing this summer should have a good start to the winter.
Our fatteners for slaughter this winter were housed at the end of September, wormed & a strip clipped along their backs. We find housing them by the end of September does help with their finished weights, as they have not had to use their reserves during the colder nights of October.
I do appreciate it's 'horses for courses' and feeding and general management will depend on individual breeders circumstances. Also, perhaps their Dexters have bigger frames which may need help to finish.
I know for a fact that there are Dexters going through abattoirs having been fed concentrates, either overfat with barley, or whatever, still in their stomachs or, the opposite, concentrates in their stomachs and still not finished (the latter was during the summer months!).
I know you have your reasons for using concentrates, but be careful. Our system works for us and our customers, both private & commercial and we can only be guided by their positive response to the beef we are supplying.
It's everyone to his own ......all the best
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:42 pm
by Broomcroft
Haven't got much choice Alison and according to the test results I've seen, you loose a very large part or even most of the benefits of omega-3 when it's in forage form anyhow. So I reckon they are probably better off out on grass and clover and getting some help. we're not talking about a feedlot and stuffing them with grain day and night. If it ain't green and fresh, forget the omega-3 bit, so this applies to most people's situations during the winter as far as I can see. All they are having is a booster and it is working. A lot of the forage when we made it had so much old grass in it, it didn't ferment properly. It's good for the cows though.
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 pm
by Broomcroft
stew / or anyone
how much rolled barley would you give a finishing dexter per day?
and how much would be given to a normal / commercial steer each day?
i'm doing some comparative figures.
Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:28 pm
by domsmith
We have just moved to a new ration for my dairy bulls.
we have moved off a concentrate to a rolled barley and biscuit meal blend. the mix is 70:30 roughly it does seem to vary with every order. there is also a mineral mix added to it. the meal is waste confectionary.
we have been using it for about 6-7 weeks now and the kills over the last 3 weeks have suddenly got a cover of fat. is it because of the weather or the ration. would cold weather bring on a layer of fat. i feel it must be the ration. it is quite dramatic the change.
i am worried about using the ration on the dexters, i feel they will pack on the fat. we would only use it if the steers need a boost. otherwise they are on the better quality silage we have from early summer.
the bulls get up to 5kgs a day with adlib silage, there are still some outside on grass they still get the ration and have done all summer.
dom
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:01 am
by wagra dexters
Alison, why do you clip a strip down their backs? Is that for back-liner?
The reason I ask is because while out scratching itchy moulting cows this morning, I found one with a scabby, itchy skin condition on her back and into the thicker mane on her wither, about 9 inches long. Very itchy but not sore.
I thought it must be fungal, given the spring weather, and discarded the possibility of re-action, because they had oral rather than a backline fluke drench most recently. They did have a back-liner 7 months ago though.
Margaret.
Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:13 am
by AlisonKirk
Graham / Margaret
Clipped back strip prevents our fatteners & young (weaned) cattle from sweating & probable chance of pneumonia when housed during the winter. Prior to this we did have cases of pneumonia and that animal took longer to fatten.
We clipped for the first time last winter & avoided pneumonia. The cattle also seemed more content and spent their time eating silage & then lying down chewing their cud (and putting on a few extra kilo's!)
We don't seem to have the same problem with the cows.
Regards
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:27 pm
by Broomcroft
Anybody used Brewers Grain and know where to get it? Can it help with finishing?
Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:13 pm
by Martin
Brewers grains is a moist feed and you will need a clamp to store it and is normally in 20odd ton loads. It can spoil if it isn't covered corectly or clamp opened and not used quickly enough.
If you google it you will find a lot of companies that supply and they will normally give a break down of protien levels etc. There should be a few in your area.
Another alternative in your neck of the woods could be sugar beet, 'C' beet (over contract) should be quite cheap as contracted tonnage is only £26. I have fed fodder beet to sheep before and they did very well on it. One of the advantages of beet is that you can easily make a clamp inside or out as you only have to protect it from frost.
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:40 am
by Broomcroft
Stew originally asked about feeding maize and then the discussion went off onto grassfed. I don't know whether you meant maize silage stew or flaked maize etc. Anyhow, as I said, forage isn't really grass-feeding, it's dead grass and it has lost a lot, often most of it's benefits to health. The only really true grassfed beef comes off living grass, but obviously we can't do that unless you only produce to finish mid-late summer, early-autumn. Some do this.
Reading the American Grassfed Associations literature, they recognise this problem over winter periods and have approved alternative winter feeds. I THINK maize silage is an accepted feed to use although they call it corn silage. Corn in American is what we call maize isn't it?
Brewers Grain is another approved feed and also Distillers Grain. Got a feed merchant calling today who does both. Linseed / flax based meals are supposed to be brilliant and what the EU Healthy Beef Project was honing in on. Haven't heard much about that lately. Beet pulp is approved too, so maybe fodder beet is?
Edited By Broomcroft on 1256273004
Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:33 am
by Broomcroft
Here's the complete list of approved supplements that the AGA publish at the moment. A lot of it is American-based. I am trying to get a UK equivalent list.
AGA Approved Supplements List- Tier 2
Cottonseed Hulls or Cottonseed Hull Pellets
Cottonseed Meal, mechanically or solvent extracted
Peanut Hulls or Peanut Hull Pellets
Peanut meal
Rice Hulls
Rice Hull Pellets
Alfalfa Cubes or Pellets (17% Protein)
Corn Cobs
Oat Hulls or Oat Hull Pellets
Oat Silage (dough stage)
Corn silage (no grain)
Soy Hulls or Soy Hull Pellets
Beet Pulp
Flax Seed or Flax Seed Meal
Safflower Seed Meal
Corn Gluten
Wheat Bran Sunflower Meal, mechanically or solvent extracted
Additional Approved Supplements for Tier 3 (All the supplements listed above are approved for Tier 3 as well as the supplements listed below).
Brewer’s Grain
Distiller’s Grain