Irish Blacks and Irish Reds - American breed

Louisa Gidney · Post by **Louisa Gidney** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:08 pm

Playing with Google, as one does on a lunch break, turned up this American farm breeding these cattle. Anyone else heard of them? Despite the appellation "Irish", it is most unclear what the foundation animals were. Some of the qualities that are being promoted are equally applicable to our Dexters.
I was also rather taken with the Anatolian Black cattle.
While I love my Dexters dearly, if I was starting out again I might shop around a bit more before choosing a breed, now that Google brings everything to one's desk in glorious technicolour.

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:39 pm

Here's a link: http://www.irishblacks.com/index.html

I couldn't spot why they are "Irish".

Edited By Broomcroft on 1246902131

davidw · Post by **davidw** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:56 am

The website states that they are primarily Friesian with some Aberdeen Angus blood - in my view that makes them Dutch or Scottish but hardly Irish

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:14 am

It all looks a bit homespun to me. They look like stocky Angus; bit of a Lowline look about them. And the name including the word Irish, but not being Irish, together with the use of a colour in the plural, has given them some problems with the English language. The repeatedly call them "Irish Blacks Bulls" and mark the statement as a registered trademark! That's like having Dexters cattles or Red Ruby's cows.

Edited By Broomcroft on 1246950974

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:23 pm

Come on Clive, they are Americans, would you expect anything else?

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:19 pm

They're not all George Bush Martin! As GWB said himself, you shouldn't misunderestimate people. I think he said that whilst he was on a fishing trip to St Louis with his Dad. In fact I have a photo...here it is...

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:53 pm

Clive, I consider myself a good judge of character, and am rarely proved wrong once I have made a judgement. They may not be all like GWB but they did vote him into office! Nice picture by the way, shows them in their true colours (even if it is a spoof).

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:54 am

Why do we love Dexters? Mainly because they aren't racist!

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:32 am

The comments from Clive and myself are not racist, we are British and have a sense of humour that may differ from people living in other parts of the world. If America and Americans (or anyone from any race or country come to that) wants to put themselves in a position to be ridiculed then they only have themselves to blame. It may not be politically correct but some things just tickle my fancy.

wagra dexters · Post by **wagra dexters** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:51 pm

Point taken, Martin. I thought it humerous to suggest that cattle made a choice between racism & tolerance. Obviously not in UK. Sorry.
Margaret.

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:57 pm

No need to say sorry Margaret, we are all different and maybe I was a little slow picking up on your humour, probably caused by my lack of education being a secondary school graduate!

acrossthesea · Post by **acrossthesea** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:37 pm

Hi Louisa,
having read your topic on Irish blacks and reds I went onto Google to find out some facts about this new breed. Going by the shape and weight of the adults I would suggest that there is a lot of Aberdeen Angus (Traditional) in the breed. There is certainly no traditional Irish breed called Irish blacks or reds. You are right to say that a lot of the traits are those of the Dexter and not the Kerry. In the early days the colour red in the Dexter was dominent. Perhaps the cattle in North America are now claiming Irish decent following Barak Obama. It may be the in thing.
Howard Hilton Hillhead Dexters (Northern Ireland)

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:22 am

Just found this about Irish Blacks, thought it might be interesting. It appears they are genetically selected to do well in the feedlot.

"Homozygous or Genetically Dominate Cattle, a Strong Future in the Beef Industry
Lisa Hendrickson of Diamond H Livestock (02/22/2009)

Irish Black cattle have been selectively bred and developed over the last forty years. Through careful and deliberate selection by dedicated lifelong cattleman, Irish Black blood has become so pure that Irish Black traits are genetically dominant. Irish Black cattle were genetically developed with insightful breeding of an entirely closed herd. As proof of their 99.99% pure blood, Irish Blacks have been trademarked in the United States. During the trademarking process it was proven that these cattle are significantly and notably unique to all other breeds of beef cattle in the US. As a result of this quality selection process, Irish Blacks 99.99% pure blood possesses the strength to dominate when crossed on any other beef cattle. Simply put, when you breed any beef cow to an Irish Black bull you will produce a calf that has all the traits of the Irish Black bull because Irish Black genes are dominant over those of any other cattle in the beef industry.

The secret to the dominance of Irish Blacks is in their genetic makeup, they are genetically “HOMOZYGOUS”. Homozygous means 100% dominance in breeding, homozygous traits are always passed on to the next generation. This means that because the Irish Blacks genes are homozygous the Irish Blacks dominant traits will become the same genetic traits given to any resulting calf no matter what breed of beef cow the mother is. As the beef market tightens this is extremely valuable to the beef industry. Producers who want to succeed must produce calves who perform exceptionally well in the feedlot and go on to return premium prices for high cut out values. Dominant genetics linked to top quality beef traits, as seen in Irish Blacks, promise a stronger future for the beef industry."

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:45 pm

Hi Clive

People can write anything can't they?! Homozygous does mean that 1 gene for that trait will always be passed on but it will ony be expressed in the resulting offspring if it is a dominant gene. Is the animal is homozygous for a recessive trait although it will pass this on to the offspring unless the resulting animal also receives the same recessive gene from the other parent then this recessive trait will be "Hidden". Classic example is the red gene - red animals are homozygous for red colour which is a recessive gene. Hence the reason the red colour is then "hidden" if the other parent supplies a black gene (ignoring dun in Dexters of course!).

This article suggests that the Irish Black is homozygous for all dominant genes - that is a pretty tall order - could happen but I have to admit to being a bit sceptical about that.

As far as the 99.99% pure - well you get that from grading up - according to my calculations that would be an animal that is a 13th cross (i.e. starting from any other breed female crossed to purebred bull, and then cross female offspring with purebred bull each generation - hope that makes sense) Would take some time to get that many generations within a closed herd situation, particularly as it works on the assumption that one parent is pure bred.

I also love that it is a "Trade Mark" in USA!!

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:12 pm

Hi Rebecca - Most of what I have read about this "breed" seems very homespun to me.