Page 1 of 2
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:43 pm
by Saffy
Just a reminder.
It is worth remembering that staggers can happen at this time of year as well as in the Spring.
Someone has just mentioned to me now on the telephone that the vet was called to a case in a suckler cow this morning at 6am.
We give ours High Magnesium Rolls all year around, ever since I lost one at this time of year myself, it was heartbreaking
Stephanie
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:04 pm
by Penny
I was of the opinion that if you give high mag all year round, then it is not beneficial, and that it is only effective if given at danger times. Where we are, the grass has been lush throughout the summer due to the rain(!) so reduced risk of staggers now.
Also, if all stock are given it, do be warned that males may develop kidney stones if given high mag. It should be for breeding stock only.
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:30 pm
by Saffy
I can't see how it can possibly be harmful to feed High Mag Ration to the cows all year around and keep their levels up. Far more harmful to suddenly stop feeding it surely.
Stephanie
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:03 pm
by Penny
Just something which I have seen, possibly on this site. Something to do with not absorbing it so well if constantly exposed to high levels, so then they cannot take it when they need it. Sorry to be so fuzzy brained, had a long day.
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:12 am
by Saffy
Can't see how that could happen but I have been wrong before!!!
However, I had checked with a vet about the efficiency of feeding Mag Rolls to prevent Mag Deficiency. The answer was - he had never heard of a case of Mag deficiency happening where the cattle had been being fed High Mag cake in the correct quantity.
Stephanie
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:30 am
by Broomcroft
Why not just use licks?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:40 pm
by Saffy
I have asked about the efficiency of licks, I had guessed that maybe the cattle took the licks because they were sweet and wondered if they did all actually take them. Apparently using licks for minerals can mean that they don't perhaps all take them. Certainly they don't take it because, or when they need the mineral, as many people believe and feed reps like to tell us but only take it because it is sweet. So I feel safest with the Rolls.
As I have such few animals anyway it isn't expensive for me to give the Rolls and see they each get a share. I split it into two feeds which isn't a requirement but I like to see my cattle closely twice a day, to make sure all is well and it brings them to me for a few minutes.
Stephanie
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:52 pm
by redhill
We feed Mag rolls for 2 reasons, firstly to make sure everyone has some, as our lead cow is likely to mug the youngsters so they get none and she overdoses,
secondly Badgers like the licks,
but like Stephanie, we have a small herd, and its not difficult
Best Wishes Sue Castlemears Herd
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:20 pm
by pudser
We Farm right on the sea and the land has very high levels of magnesium. We have never had any tetany however we sold six cows to a neighbour 6 years ago and 3 of them got tetany vwithin 3 weeks.
I think constant high levels of mag will reduce the rate of absorbtion and in the event of bad weather(reduction in absorbtion) or a delay in replacing the licks there could be a danger of precipitating tetany.
The main risk period generally coincides with a change in the weather when the cows are in lush pasture or in autumn/winter on poor pasture when the calves are getting bigger and putting the cows under pressure.
The only absolute prevention in my humbe opinion is to feed cal mag enriched nuts at these times while providing adequate trough space
Pudser
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:51 pm
by Woodmagic
I was delighted to see Saffy’s prompt on feeding magnesium if there is a shortage in your farm soil. When I was chasing cows for samples for the bulldog experiment, the enormous number of cows reported to have been lost through magnesium deficiency depressed me. It was brought home to me that it is responsible for a large loss to the breed.
My vet informs me that it no longer has a seasonal component but can strike at almost any time. He also assured me Penny that it will not harm any category of stock, any surplus to requirements is simply lost, and an animal cannot store it. Calcium can act as you suggest and should not be heavily fed before calving, but this does not apply to magnesium. Small calves require it until they are eating sufficiently to fulfil their requirements, if necessary I bullet mine. A new home puts stress on a cow and makes it more vulnerable unless you are lucky enough to have a farm with sufficient in the soil.
Licks are not approved by most vets because some cows wont use them while others may take twice what they need chasing the molasses. Feeding rolls is a system I began many years ago, if you have a sizeable herd it ensures you know they are all getting their ration, if your feeding method allows. It is less onerous than bulleting and even bullets are not fool proof judging by the number I have come across regurgitated. Moreover the rolls supply a number of other minerals and vitamins, which are useful, and the protein can balance a low protein feed. They cost but so does losing a cow, to say nothing of peace of mind.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:27 am
by davidw
Can you advise where I can buy magnesium rolls. I've asked at my local feed merchant and been met with blank stares. They claim they never heard of them.
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:07 am
by Saffy
The food I am using is actually labelled Suckler Cow Rolls and comes from Mole Valley Feeds in Devon.
They have been very helpful as they now take feed to other areas of the country. They are dropping mine with big loads of other feed at other farms and the local rep brings it for me about every 6 weeks - excellent service, it may well be worth your while contacting Mole Valley and asking if they deliver to anyone in your area.
If not check the label on Suckler Cow Rolls stocked locally and see if any have enough magnesium in them, if it is 1.5% like Mole Valley, then feed at a rate of 2 pounds per cow, per day.
Stephanie
Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:55 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Development of staggers is a tricky subject and it is not always easy to predict. Some animals will happily walk about looking normal with lower magnesium levels than others which have died with staggers. Intake is influenced by quality of grass, with lush quick grown grass with a high water content very bad news. The danger of this can be countered to a certain extent by making dry fibre available, eg as good quality straw put out on lush pasture such as aftermath. The straw has the effect of slowing the passage of grass through the gut and allowing more absorbtion, and probably more use of available energy. This is likely to be more useful in spring and autumn.
Staggers can also strike when there is a low energy intake, and at such times provision of extra energy may be better served by addition of concentrate feeding - any sort will be better than nothing, but at high risk times the "magnesium roll" type can be used. As others have said it has the advantage over licks of a better average uptake as long as it is fed with adequate access to all cows without bullying. I just spread mine in small "snacks" on as dry a bit of ground as I can find, taking a clean bit every day rather than letting one particular bit get poached. I use them in spring if growth is slow and cows are calving and have a high requirement. It will also reduce the risk of milk fever as there is an interdependance to a certain extent between magnesium and calcium. When the high risk period has passed I try to have a lick available to cows with calves but to be honest they take very little.
Magnesium bullets which lodge in the reticulum can also be used but they have a limited useful life of about 3 weeks, and the risk may continue when they have stopped working. The sort of situation I would use them in my dexters is when a cow has been affected and survived. She needs special treatment for a while, and watching in other years. Stress of any sort will increase the risks, eg transport, or coming in season. In modern dairy cows most of the cases of staggers I see are when they are in season.
I don't think that magnesium is subject to the same paradoxical effect that results from feeding constant high levels of calcium in the dry period. This has the effect of conditioning the body to depend on the oral intake for maintaining calcium leves as calving approaches, and then a dip occurs when the cow does not eat so much at calving, resulting in milk fever.
Duncan
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:16 pm
by Broomcroft
We used to put mag flakes in the water to make sure everything got a dose because we noticed that certain cows never licked the licks. That was really easy to do. Also it isn't an attraction for badgers or vermin.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1253125100
Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:54 am
by debra wiltshire
could you tell me abit more about mag flakes? How much, how often where do you get them...that sort of thing?
Debra