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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:38 pm
by oakwell
Hi yesteray I received a copy of an application to my local council (Kirklees) to add a footpath across my land under the wildlife and countryside act 1986.
can anyone please give advise of obviously rejecting the notce , and retain my land without a public right of way.
oakwell Dexters
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:45 pm
by Saffy
Was there ever a public right of way across your land on that spot before?
If not I don't see how it can possibly be insisted upon, all footpaths were designated in 1958 or something - I think.
Another thought - recently a very nice gentleman suggested I might like a footpath moved up onto my rather good and long tarmac farm drive and upgraded into a bridle path - this would mean lots of other footpath through the farm being bridle path and nice people on horses trotting through the yard at will.
The very small possible "carrot" was that the council - might - maintain it.....well thats just fantastic!!! I said a very determined NO.
Have you had any nice chats with anyone about paths?
Stephanie
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:59 pm
by oakwell
Hi Stephanie
thanks for your reply.
When I took over the land there was an unofficial footpath that crossed from an ajacent landowner. when I made enquiries with the local authoraty they confirmed there was no public right of way across my land, and I refenced acordingly, only to get my fences cut and cattle let out. I have a copy of all footpaths from the local authority, and the one that the public are trying to list does not exsist. Tomorrow (Monday)I intend to tackel the council but I could do with as much amunition as possible.
Nigel (Oakwell Dexters)
Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:23 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
A number of organisations such as NFU offer free legal helplines, or some insurance policies entititle you to help- if you have access to a legal helpline it might help to have some advice on the legalities before you tackle the Council. Scottish law differs from English on this sort of thing, but some landowners here take care to close footpaths on at least one day a year so that no right can be created. Sometimes they post gamekeepers etc at a point on the path to stop any walkers.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:04 am
by davidw
Dear Nigel,
There are several reports of cases that appear similar to yours on the web. It seems that Ramblers groups have been applying to convert un-official paths to official ones.
The main laws to deal with are the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 and the Highways Act of 1980. The main one I feel is the Highways Act
Section 31 of the Highways Act 1980 states that a way is deemed to have been dedicated as a public right of way if it has actually been enjoyed by the public as of right and without interruption for a full period of 20 years. The 20 year period is calculated retrospectively from the date when public use of the way is brought into question.
I suggest that you make a strong case to the council to object to the proposal and mention the persistent damage caused to your property by ramblers.
In my opinion, many ramblers have no respect for the countryside and the majority don't even know where they are for most of the time.
Good luck
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:11 am
by davidw
Dear Nigel,
Bit more advice/info. To convert this claimed unofficial path into a public footpath, the applicants need to submit evidence that they have used the path without any hindrance for a period of at least 20 years. The fact that you erected fences shows that they did not.
Try to gather as much material about actual usage as you can.
There are several reports of foothpath hearings on the web from Sussex, Derbyshire, Hampshire etc. Most were not approved.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:59 pm
by Broomcroft
Nigel - If you can, take pictures to go along with your "protest" and any documentary evidence you have such as letters written to anyone asking them not to cross your land.
Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:22 pm
by oakwell
thanks for the info David, I have been in touch with our local police to get crime numbers for the fence damage. and I also have a letter from the local council dated back in April this year stating that there is no official right of way. but suddenley they now tell me that because they have received the application they have to follow it through.
One interesting point is that the people that have applied for thr footpath have only just formed a walkers club. and certenly have not had accses across my land over the past 20 year without being turned back. I will let everyone know how I am doing as this problem needs to be addressed. Is it our land anyway? or a free for all, after all look at the recent problems with people walkin their dogs and getting injured.
Nigel Oakwell dexters
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:36 am
by Martin
Nigel, maybe you should point out that you have no choice but to run a bull, in calf cows and cows with young calves at different times (good agricultural practice) in this field and point out the recent publicity ref cows attacking walkers. You could insinuate that the council could be seen to be acting irresponsibly if they allow the footpath and then someone was injured.
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:48 am
by CarolineL
Good luck with it Nigel. We have a public footpath along the bottom of our main field, along the river bank. We fence it off with elecrtic fencing when the cattle are in (mostly for their benefit rather than the public's) and it drives me mad when the gates are left open despite big notices saying 'please close the gate'. Thankfully they are kissing gates but if the cows and calves were in it wouldn't take much for a curious calf to get out. Could you get anything from your insurance company about the potential costs/neglicence issues if the walking club left the gate open and the cows got out?
Perhaps suggest they divert their walk across the middle of the local golf course and see what response they get from the golf club!
Regards
Caroline
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:13 pm
by davidw
If you need some specialist advice, I have a contact who deals with rights of way and footpath issues. He may be more effective than a general purpose solicitor.
I'd be pleased to pass on his details if you send me an email on davidw@intldevelopment.net
best regards
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:21 pm
by clacko
good luck with this one, you will need it. we had an old road run through the estate on a map of 1890 something, 95% of this track had been ploughed and cropped/ grazed since the war years, the grazed areas were long narrow strip grazing paddocks behind the parlour. about 10 of those, the rest was down to arable. ONE man on a mission (NOT EVEN A LOCAL) decided it was a good ideas to kick up a stink about this "old track" and wanted it opened up as a foot path which ran across several large fields and covered approx 1 mile all on the same estate. he got the council envolved and to his dissaproval they suggested that it should be re-enstated as a byway, they then pursued this and after months in court on and of and public hearings the estate managed to get the route divirted around the edge of several fields rather than cutting across them, stone curlew nesting sites (recorded) helped the estate win the re route, but without the curlews we wouldn't have stood a chance, best of it is now, the man who kicked up moved down to the west country soon after, went from 20 miles away to 220 
now we get 4x4 townies and enduro motor bike riders most weekends paul
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:25 pm
by oakwell
Hi today I recieved a coy of the proposed new right of way to my dissmay, they all claiming three sepeate paths across eight acres of the field basicly if approved would finish my suckler herd because of Bull issues. I have aked for a site meeting for next week, and at thi moment doumenting dates when fences have been cut animals out, dogs worring sheep, along with dogs chasing heaviley in calve cows and hefiers. three weeks go a fence was cut a nd catte were in a local grave yard, I recived a call around eight in the morning from the grave diggers saying that if I didn't move the cattle the entermant would have to be possponed.
It makes you feel like throwing in the towel, but I suppose this is probably what they want me to do so they can walk their dogs ( and being resposible people pick the mess up place in a bag and dump it in the edge bottom still in it's non biodegradableplastic bag)I will let everyone kn, but in the meantime any advise will be greatfully excepted.
Nigel (oakwell Dexters)
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:55 pm
by Broomcroft
Get some professional help. If you are a member of anything, NFU, CLA, ask them for help. get in touch with your local newspaper, or county magazine, tell them about what's been happening and make sure the planning people are aware of the publicity. They'll say it's irrelevant, but it won't be. Your cows getting into a cemetery because someone cut the fence is a fantastic story, newspaper's will pull your arm off for that one. Dogs chasing in-calf cows!!! You have the right to shoot the dogs even if you THINK they are going to chase the cows, let alone if they actually do, that's my understanding and I know farmers who have done just that, bang, dead dog. TELL THE RSPCA and tell the newspapers you've told the RSPCA.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1250200848
Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:29 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Try not to lose heart on this, keep spirits up and try to enlist as much help as you can. Remember that the little man CAN win against Goliath. We won an appeal against Scottish Water a few years ago when the refused to put lids on sewage treatment tanks near us. We went to a Scottish Office enquiry against Scottish Water who at that point had NEVER lost a planning appeal. We had myself and wife, a neighbour who was a mathematician, and two other well intentioned neighbours. We beat a full legal team headed by a QC, they spent £750,000 on legal team, we spent about £10 on photocopying.
Find out as soon as you can what the timescale of events is, what appeals are possible if it goes against you, and as has already been suggested what free legal help you can get. You may get more than you think of other local landowners are in a similar position - ask neighbouring landowners if they are in similar trouble.
Duncan