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Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:14 pm
by catomell
Hi - can anyone help me. I am curious to know if anyone knows if there is any discernible difference in running on bull calves for meat, as opposed to steers. Does this affect the meat quality, taste etc. I have previously run a bull calf to a year and a half and then had him castrated (didn't turn out to be quite as nice as I had hoped he would), and he tasted perfectly fine when we slaughtered and ate him. I haven't managed to castrate the current bunch, purely because one of the dams is so very evil when she has a calf that she then prevents me getting near any of them! Happily, most years she is the later of my cows to calve, and I can therefore get near the males and ring them! However, last year this was different, so I now have four bull calves aged 9 months - developing very nicely, I might add! I really don't want the expense of getting the vet to castrate them now, but if necessary, I will have to. It is easy enough for me to keep them separated from the rest of the herd, and they are not fighting, so I am happy to keep them entire! Anyone disagree with this?? Hope someone can shed some light - thanks. Catherine.
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:02 pm
by Mark Bowles
i must say that i would castrate them, i am not at all keen on bull beef through experience. We had a rig and when we sent him in he came back tough, not desirable, and not the sort of meat to pass on to your customers.
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:10 pm
by catomell
Thank you for that Mark. Having never tasted bull beef, I thought it worth checking. I will make the necessary appointment with the vet and have the dingly danglies removed pronto. Thanks for the advice.
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 9:46 pm
by domsmith
I personally feel that the only advantage to steering is ease of management. a bull will not put on as much fat which might not be desirable. but i always thought tough meat and supposed taste of a bull was not true.
my business is finishing young bulls less than 12 months and tough meat is never an issue, but they are young.
we have finished dexter bulls always young, 1 at christmas at 14 months and 1, 2 weeks ago at 18 months 228kg and good conformation easy on the fat but still a cover.
i would be suprised if he is tough he was certainly a hand ful live though.
all home bred calves are steered at 12 months.
dominic
Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:53 pm
by catomell
Forgive me if I am now asking a blonde question, but how are you steering them at 12 months cost effectively, i.e. without the vet present? I am not sure that I fancy doing that particular job?!??!?! Also, do you find that leaving them entire for that bit longer increases the deadweight??? The initial chap (Arthur) who we ran as a bull for a while before sorting him out came back 400kg at 23 months, and tasted handsome!!
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:54 am
by mike skelton
Hi catomel
never mind you being blonde, are you refering to a dexter being returned deadweight at 400kg. If so i'd love to talk to you about your feeding regime
mike
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:18 am
by catomell
Yeah, think Arthur was a bit of a fluke. He was from a non-short cow who is probably a little on the large side (she is a fairly old Knightsway cow), and our bull, who is also a Knightsway product (by Paddy). Arthur was kept on as a bull as he showed real promise as a calf, but as he grew he didn't materialise quite as we had hoped, with not much to his back end at all, so at 23 months, since we needed the meat, we had him slaughtered, and I have to admit, that even I was shocked when I saw the four 100kg quarters hanging in our cold room. All he ate was grass, silage in winter, and the occasional nut as a bribe to come in from the field. Haven't had anything similar since, I might add. Have had a couple near the 300kg mark, but that's as close as I've got.....
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 2:51 pm
by Broomcroft
A 400kg carcass would be a very large Angus. I have a chest height Angus bull and his carcass would be about 300kg if I killed him. At 400kg size you are getting into the area where even a supermarket would not want it because it was too big. Are you sure you aren't getting your kg's and lb's mixed up? At 400kg deadweight, the dexter would have to have been approx 775kg liveweight and chest high or higher. The meat from the carcass would have weighed 260kg and would have filled two large chest-freezers to the top!
People who buy bulls professionally for meat usually have an age limit of about 16 months (other than for pies etc at a reduced price).
We have only ever done one dexter bull and he was left until 26 months, very well finished to say the least, he had never worked and his steaks were tough. Sirloins etc very tasty, slightly tough, rumps would have made excellent soles for my shoes.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 4:34 pm
by mike skelton
have you any rump steaks left clive? Being a poor smallholder they would be an ideal size to put in my shoes to cover the holes in my soles!
regards
mike
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:07 pm
by Broomcroft
No, Mike, I sold them to Dunlop.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:04 pm
by catomell
Thank you for re-enforcing what I thought would be necessary - as it happens, we had the vet here today for our TB reading (all clear, thank goodness), and I have made the arrangements to have the bull calves dealt with, pronto.
As for the question about the weight, I can assure you that I am not mixing up my kgs and my lbs. Have just double checked with my husband, and apparently Arthur was nearer 396kg than 400, but he tasted wonderful - everyone who had a bit of him thought it was the best they had ever tasted, and came back for more. I might re-iterate that he was only entire for the first twelve months of his life, he was then castrated, and was slaughtered at 23 months, and I have also pointed out that I have not had another similar since then, even from the same dam and the same sire. I hope this clarifies things a little...but I will be castrating as soon as possible.
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:16 pm
by domsmith
the vet is always present, cost is not tobad £20-30 i think but i will soon tell you as they are being done next week.
its simply down to my management time, it just suits me to leave them well alone until i have the chance to do it usually in the spring.
i think the consensus is correct bull meat is ok if you get it young.
400kg deadweight for dexter would surely be impossible! 800kg live weight would be as big as a decent young angus bull
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:08 am
by Broomcroft
How do you finish an 800kg steer on grass!!! The general rule is that about 500kg is the limit.
The only other reason for steering is your own safety or if you've got public footpaths. We have kept groups of young bulls before and you had to be very careful when in the pen unless you are suicidal. Mind you, sometimes a group of steers can be a handful as well.
Dominic - Have you ever done a dexter bull young?
Edited By Broomcroft on 1242457978
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:27 am
by Broomcroft
i.e. have you ever beefed a young dexter bull?
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 2:43 pm
by Saffy
I read with interest a post on bull beef a few posts back in this thread suggesting that steaks from a bull over 26 months would be likely tough to the point of inedible.
At the moment we are eating our way through a bull that worked for several years before being slaughtered at nearly 5 years old. The meat is I admit not up to the standard of the Dexter beef we have become used to, as it is a bit darker and has less flavour than the best Dexter beef but no less than other beef.
This post prompted us to fry some rump for our lunch!!! I tend to braise alot for simplicity you see, as I am often working right up to mealtimes and I realised it would greatly mask any toughness. Anyway rump steak and chips has been consumed. I do admit it was a little chewy but by no means inedible, similar to the steak I have been served up in a restaurant on several occasions! So I think it must also depend on the beast and possibly how it is treated immediately prior to slaughter at the slaughterhouse? I say this as I am told that if an animal is very stressed and therefore the muscles are tense just before slaughter the meat is tough, maybe if the slaughtermen are scared of a bull they will treat it accordingly?
My conclusion is that keeping a beast entire is probably not ideal for quality meat but as long as you don't mind doing a spot of braising and marinading, you can get away with using a bull for a year or two and still pop him in the freezer, if it suits you! :laugh:
Stephanie