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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:58 pm
by stew
any one had dex veal then ???
and whatare your thoughts on killing at a young age
as we supply suckling pigs and they taste out of this world and cost effective to for a family to eat off
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:46 pm
by Broomcroft
Pink or white?
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:09 pm
by ann
Hi In the days when it was easy to get calves cheap direct from the farm friends of mine use to rear jersey calves alongside the dexter calves and veal the jersey's at about 4 mths and they did not sell the veal cheap and always had a waiting list for it. One problem they found was that butchers where not good at cutting it up correctly so this was a task they did them selves, However I don't think they ever vealed the dexter calves, and I personally can't see why any one would want to as what are you going to do with all the milk your cow would be left with. Most dexters are capable of rearing a 2nd calf along with their own if fed correctly. However I doubt very many people would what to take the risk these days of bringing alien germs into their herds. I occasionally double suckle the odd cow who has far to much milk but find it much easier to adjust their feeding until their own calf can cope.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:26 pm
by Liz D
Hi we are going to veal our first Dexter bull calf next month and I want to see how it is going to be. We usually veal a 'drop' calf a few times a year and although the calf has access to mineral, hay/grass and a tiny bit of grain the last month, we feed a lot of whole milk and so far the veal has been 'white'. I milk all of the cows and hand feed the calves because I make a lot of cheese but we always have extra so this is a good way to use it and make a bit of money. The quality of the meat far exceeds the formula fed, anemic stuff in the butcher shops and so we usually have a waiting list too. As far as the age goes, as long as the animal is stress free and healthy, whatever the age the result is much the same anyway. Liz
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:27 pm
by domsmith
Dont you think it is a terrible waste?
To kill a young beast when it could go on and produce such a fantastic product later in its life. with such a tiny veal calf you cant get a high yield, and i would have thought the cuts would be painfully small.
To be highly moralistic with beef in short supply can we justify finishing such small animals when we they could grow on and feed so many more people.
i certainly would have a major problem with that. we gat asked all the time for suckling pig and they get very much a flea in the ear, my pigs get a bit of life outside and we wont kill younger than 4 months.
i cant see a reason for killing dexters at young ages when ther are so many dairy bulls out there in need of doing something with, use them for veal but not the good stuff.
dom
Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:58 pm
by Saffy
I totally agree with you Dom, I am born and bred on the farm but don't really think it is right to kill something young when it could go on much longer and actually be even more useful as food. Whilst I quite understand that we breed our animals for food, I like them to have as long a life and as good a quality of life as is possible.
Chris buys chickens to rear for us for the table that are the type that go to the supermarket weighing about 2 to 2 and a half pounds. They are about 5 to 6 weeks when he gets them and that is the age they are often killed for the supermarket shelves. They are starting to go off their legs a bit so we put their food and water and the chickens outside and they always learn to make their way in when it gets dark and their legs improve. Within a week they are tearing about squabbling over worms - whose quality of life probably declines sharply! We only kill them as they are required form about 3 months of age until abut 6 months. The last one usually weighs in at about 15 + dressed that is alot of chicken!!! They have a very good life and taste wonderful!
Stephanie
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:08 am
by Colin
I agree it does seem a waste. Not just in using a small calf which would offer such a high quality beef animal later, but bull calves, as a by product of the dairy industry, are often destroyed as they are worth so little. It's a shame we don't eat more veal in this country as there is a very large potential supply from the dairy industry, much of which is currently being wasted due to lack of demand.
Colin
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:34 am
by stew
the tatse of such a young animal is so much better than an mature beast
we kill alot of pigs at around 5-7 week old and that can be sold for anything between £50-£70 pound so they are paying alot of money i would sell all my pigs like this if i could with only feed into the sow the £ erned from one suckling pig per litter will pay for sows food for a month or longer
i will be vealing our next bull calf and have a buyer in line for a great price if it turns out ok i may kill more young bulls
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:02 am
by Broomcroft
Personally we don't like the slaughter of young animals if it can be avoided, and in the dairy industry it can't really.
The production of veal is a controversial issue and lots of people won't eat it, including me. Is it not banned in the UK unless done to RSPCA regulations? It's not the slaughter, it's the way they are reared that is the issue.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:32 am
by Colin
Clive, I had the same concerns and wouldn't eat veal for the same reasons. I'm not an expert at all in veal production, but I did see an interesting TV programme on it a few months ago and the welfare side is now very different to the old cruel veal crate system, on the continent as well (although welfare standards are higher in the UK). Unless the farm they showed was not typical, the calves are kept together in open pens with straw and daylight and allowed to roam around. Seemed a better way than being shot and dumped as happens in many cases. The message was if you drink milk you should eat veal.
Colin
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:15 pm
by wagra
Forty years ago I visited an establishment run by a calf milk powder company, producing white veal for the Dutch market. The vealers were in slatted pens and fed solely on milk. They were herefords, huge for their age, and the pens had no nails exposed in case the calves licked them, which would colour the meat.
Those calves were crazy, they rolled their eyes, and when someone coughed the calves, about 80 or 100 of them, sounded as though they were stampeding on the spot. Their faeces was like toothpaste. The other thing I remember is that they were not fed on Sundays, because they put on no more weight being fed 7 days a week than they did being fed 6 days a week.
It was disgusting, and I have no idea how it could be legal, even 40 years ago.
On the other hand, I can see nothing morally wrong with a few calves going straight to slaughter at weaning when it has had a great 9 to 10 months running free with Mum, and it is simply the by-product of a stud breeding establishment.
The choice to run them on to maximise potential quantity and quality of meat is a great joy and priviledge dependent on the availability of cost-effective feed.
Edited By wagra on 1214306189
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:35 pm
by Saffy
Wagra, I have never seen the type of rearing that you mention myself but my Father visited several farms, I think in Holland, in the late 50s or very early 60s and he had very strong views about that form veal production.
He told exactly the same story as you do. It is shocking that a tough farmer as he was could be so utterly disquieted by the manner of rearing.
Stephanie
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:57 pm
by Louise Badcock
Hi
I do not think there is anything wrong with sending a calf straight off its dam if you have no room or facilities for running it on. This is the kind of veal the French sell as "sous le mere" I think and it is highly prized. I have very little acreage and recently sold a yearling steer. It might have made more economic sense to send it to the butcher.
cheers Louise
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:52 pm
by domsmith
Well stew you do what you want, but certainly its not what i rear my suckler cattle for.
did you mean to say you sell suckling pig for 50-70 per pound!! i assume not. but if you get 50-70 each and that is live with your customer paying for killing etc then its not a bad return.
but i have to say the thought of my weaners alone in a strange cold abattoir would not make me sleep well. i also worry about abattoir handling of such small animals. bars of pens etc being too big. with calves the stunning pens. would they allow good access to the calf for a clean shot.
i would question the flavour of a young beast being superior. i think flavour developes with age. but i can understand it being different.
veal is very much a tender juicy meat, with its own flavour. but it is delicate, and when you consider the extraordinary flavour of dexter beef, i think you would struggle to say calf was superior.
i can assure everyone that british rose veal is not at all related to veal of the past. crates are outlawed but in europe they still keep calves in cramped conditions on a milk only diet.
in the uk there is a mix of indoor and outdoor reared calves. some are fed on milk others are weaned and fed on cereal. all have to adhere to the minimum space, and bedding requirements for calves.
these calves are destined for slaughter or export, so to use them or give them as good a life as posible is surely better then than export or immediate slaughter.
enough said
dom
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:11 am
by stew
yes that £ 50-70 per suckling pig
any why should you sleep different taking young stock or old stock
im certainly not thinking of bring back veal crates