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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:54 am
by AlisonKirk
Hi Mark
Our bulls are out with running with cows that calved March/April time. As a matter of course we inject our heifer calves with Estrumate three weeks after the bull has been taken away, just in case he's helped himself. Best to discuss this with your vet.
We don't have any problems with the bull going in with cows and their calves.
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:16 pm
by Sylvia
When I first had the Dexters I thought the idea of letting a bull serve underage heifers and then, in effect, abort them with an injection was a terrible idea. But in practice it is widespread and often necessary. Surprisingly young heifer calves can be caught by the bull so if you want to wait until they are 3 months to get calves at the same time each year it is a necessary precaution. Far better than risking an underage pregnancy.
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:29 pm
by Broomcroft
So down to what age would inject if the heifer has been with a bull?
Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:38 pm
by AlisonKirk
Clive.....We wean at 8 months, so inject 3 weeks after that.
Rob & Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:33 am
by monica waltho
I have had a short heifer which born in march served by our bull that was running wth them, it was a short legged heifer and they tend to mature the earliest but anything at 5-6months will come bulling if they are doing well.I had left him in a bit longer than I would have liked but I had a couple of cows come over, but I dont like them being served at that age because yes you can estrumate but the other problem can be the internal damage that can be done. This little heifer walked round with her tail in the air for about a week and walked as though she was in discomfort for a few days - I have since given her a shot of penicillin to cover any infection, I shall keep an eye on her to see if she comes bulling naurally and esrumate if need be but I would be concerned about any infection or damge rendering her infertile when she is ready to be served .I once had a cow in for service with a well grown heifer for somebody that got served and had to have the vet to it as it became very swollen and bruised internally. We also had a freemartin glocester heifer that we let run wth the bull thinnking that it wouldnt come bulling and it wouldnt get incalf any way , we had bought with her twin brother to fatten- she came bulling but because she was a freemartin she was not properly developed inside and the bull caused alot of damage and we nearly lost her.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:19 am
by wagra dexters
A mature bull doing permanent injury to an underage heifer is my concern, and blanket prostaglandin seems like overkill when it may not be necessary.
Depasture need only be 6-7 weeks for a few cows, and 9-10 weeks for a larger herd, keeping a close eye out for any sign of the bull tracking youngsters.
If any cow gets missed or slips a pregnancy, she could be joined for an Autumn calf after weaning her last year's Spring heifer.
'Remove the bull by New Year' was how we used to do it, southern hemisphere, but I would start a month later now, because it is too cold to get out of bed early in August!
Margaret.
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:25 pm
by Broomcroft
To keep it simple for my brain box, at what age would you keep a heifer calf with a bull without being concerned? Sounds like about 5 months? Or would you be concerned for even younger heifers?
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:44 pm
by Sylvia
Yes, Clive. Simple enough ? ???
Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:12 pm
by Pennielea
Two or three years ago there was an article in the 'Bulletin' of a heifer calving at 11 months of age, which meant that she was caught by the bull at two months.
Ian
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:35 am
by Saffy
Now Ian THAT IS a scary thought!
Stephanie
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:24 am
by Broomcroft
Is there a downside to the injection because I feel I might inject everything that comes away from the bull that is too young, as a matter of routine?
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:35 am
by Martin
I had a young heifer that was 'got at' and asked my vets advice. It is an injection that you are not allowed to do yourself as the drug is/could be very unpleasant if miss used, so it can be expensive if you have just one or two to jab as the vet visit is a big part of the bill.
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:39 am
by Saffy
Surely there are downsides to injecting everthing like this.
How do you know how far in calf your heifer is for instance? What if the bull has been in for a few months and she caught straight away? Wouldn't she need a wash out afterwards? Also can't it affect their ability to conceive when you want them to later on? I think it can affect the way they cycle and even shorten the time they are bulling which could be awkward if you wanted to use AI then or someone else did if she was sold.
Stephanie
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:42 am
by jeanthomas
My bull covered an 11 week old heifer a few years ago! The heifer was bleeding and trumatised. I fetched her and mum in and called the vet. My vet, initially, did not believe what had happened. The heifer cost a fair amount in vet fees, we even had to take her over to the surgery, where they could examine her thoroughly. I am very careful now! 
Jean
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:41 pm
by Mark Bowles
i have had a 5 month old non short heifer served by our non short bull today, so i will inject in a month or so. I was going to split the cow from the bull this coming weekend.There are no side effects according to my vet.
We are lucky enough to have our cattle around the house so we keep a close eye on things, if i were checking once a day in a remote location i am pretty sure i would have missed it, in a matter of hours her tail was back down and you could not tell anything had happened.