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Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:29 pm
by Chris Downward
Having organic dexters with horns I understand the safety aspect of polling but I have decided not to remove the horns. I feel that the animals are happier with what nature gave them rather than me chopping off something for my safety.
Is there anything in the "rules" that says what a dexter should look like in regards to horns?
I am off a firm belief that if nature opts to give an animal horns then we should accept it--not cut it off.
What is the policy on this?
regards
Chris
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:09 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
"Horns: Moderately thick, with an inward, upward curve. Removal of horns will not be penalised in the show ring. Polled animals are acceptable but must be notified."
From the breed standard.
I used to like to see mine with horns on, but as my numbers increased and I had to house them in pens in a shed rather than tied by the neck in a byre for the winter, they were very sore on one another. Animals which had been very friendly out in a field would attack one another mercilessly in a small pen, so I dehorn them now, purely for their own welfare. Some people feel they are a danger to the handlers with horns but to be honest I never had any trouble myself, it was the damage they did to each other that made me dehorn them.
Duncan
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:26 am
by Rutherford
I came into farming when horns were the order of the day, and most housed animals were chained by the neck, in the byre. I certainly came across accidents involving people as well as other cattle. Usually these were accidental, but none the less damaging, two that I remember, was somebody losing an eye when a cow eating hay flung her head back, the other was intentional when a cow thought she needed to protect her calf and permanently lamed the owner. I like to work with nature as far as is feasible, but those weapons were provided against predators to be fought, not for decoration. Nature does not pen them in with no escape from a more dominant member of the herd. If you intend to leave them on you should be prepared to give them individual housing. Personally I took mine off when a particular pet was badly damaged by another out in the open field.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:13 am
by Martin
My first two Dexters where horned, when I increased numbers with de-horned cows problems then started. A cow with hornes will always be the 'boss' if she deserves it or not, as there is never a 'fair fight'. After de-horning proper order was established and I will never have horned cattle again. Some animals are naturally more aggresive than others and if they are the ones with horns will always be at the top. You could, by allowing youngsters to come into the herd with horns cause yourself more problems than you think.
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:16 am
by Broomcroft
No horns allowed on our farm since I found one that had a polled animal up against a wall pushing her horns into the other's side. How it did not actually pierce through I'll never know.
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:21 am
by Sylvia
The term 'polled' is reserved for animals who do not grow horns at all, 'dehorning' is intervention from the owner to remove the horns or stop them growing. There is no evidence that polled animals are less happy than those with horns, rather the reverse I think. And I support what has been said above - there is nothing natural in the way cattle are kept in this country. Kept in fenced fields, barns in winter, fed at feeders, put through crushes for various essential reasons and carefully protected from predators. There is only one good reason for keeping a horned herd and that is because the owner likes to see horns on
his/her animals - and fully accepts the implications of doing so (also covered above).
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:13 am
by redhill
Chris,
Our Dexters all have their horns, we farm at an old intensive pig farm and the pig pens allow each of our Dexters to have a room of their own,so we dont have the problem of "communal " overwintering,Our girls were all born on the farm so everyone grows up knowing to respect the senior cows.We think that if you want a traditional herd then it's best to start with a couple,and breed from them, its when you bring in strangers that the trouble starts. I dont think that horned cattle are a good idea for the hobby farmer who may not see his or her cattle several times each day, or for a first timer who may be nervous , the cows can sense this and take advantage of the situation, on the other hand,the cow with horns carries herself differently,head held higher,with what we call a "model girl walk", and in the show ring looks to be an entirely different breed to the rest,especially if she is non short. if you are in our area come and see our Dexters, they love visitors. Sue Castlemears herd Forest of Dean .
Martin I'm boss cow in our herd Sue
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:14 am
by wagra
We have disbudded all calves for four years now, and life is much happier all round.
Easier to get cows into the headbail, safer when they are milling around for attention, & no more torn labia at the round bale feeders, having to be stitched up, and hoping the tears have repaired in time for calving!! The older horned cows have to have twice as many bale feeders at a time, for their own safety.
I have reservations about the purity of polled lines, but very much in favour of dehorning, although I do love the look of their beautiful horns.
Margaret
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:44 pm
by Louisa Gidney
Personally, I'm all in favour of keeping the horns. I think having horned stock means one cannot be lazy or take short cuts with one's stockmanship. I've kept the horns on my young bull and this has been a major incentive to handle him, if he'd been dehorned I probably would not have spent a fraction of the time on him. Do be well aware of the downsides of horns, discussed above, but equally be aware of how much extra pleasure you can derive from contemplating horned cattle.
I always approach my cattle from the rear and they can kick just as hard with or without horns.
As said above, you are far less likely to have problems if you breed a horned herd, rather than buying one.
I also find that the little dears cannot get the halter off over their horns.
My cows have individual pens in the barn over winter. I would never loose-house inwintered horned cows. Turn out is largely dictated by the height of the muck and the sparring across the pen tops.
In over 20 years of running a horned herd, neither myself nor the cattle have sustained injury from horns. It's partly frame of mind. You have got to establish yourself as herd boss from the very start and maintain that position thereafter. Dexters soon learn basic commands like BAD and NO, they may not understand "if you try that again sunshine, you're off to the abattoir" but they do understand the tone of voice in which it is said.
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:24 pm
by Chris Downward
Many thanks for all your comments, mine is a closed herd and i really like the look of the cows with horns but I do take all your other points to heart.
I do though find myself being extra attentive to horned animals than to unhorned ones. They are not fully housed in winter but can go in and out as they wish, they do though have their own individual feeding areas.
thanks again for the help
Chris
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:47 am
by Inger
I've gone totally hornless after having problems with a dehorned cow who had a small amount of horn on one side that had regrown and boy, did she know how to use it. We bought in two horned animals and had them dehorned not long afterwards. The difference in their temperaments was amazing. No longer did they try to boss the older cows around. They had to slot into the pecking order and things were much more peaceful. We now have half our bulls naturally polled and most of our female herd are born without horns as well. Any calves born with horns are dehorned as calves.
The whole herd gets on much better without horns. It doesn't stop the lead cow head butting younger heifers out of the way of the bit of hay that she wants, but at least she can't hurt any of them. She was born without horns, by the way.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:36 pm
by Chris Downward
Inger,
Thanks for this but I still love the way the horn goes from grey to white as they get older. The cows I have --at at this point I touch wood--seem to take extra care when they barge a calf etc out of the way--they do have a lot of space though--the only thing that I have noticed is that they use their horns to dig into the ground on occassions. i thought this could be a mineral/vit deficiency but I've checked them and all seems OK--they just like digging!! perhaps?.
Chris
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:59 pm
by monica waltho
I think its up to you as long as they have plenty of space and you are aware of the risks the only other point I would like to make is- are you going to keep these animals long term because if in 2-3years time your circumstances change and you need to sell you would find it much harder to sell them.
Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:42 pm
by redhill
There is a market for horned Dexters, we have never had any problem selling our cattle, one can always remove the horns,( only one customer has ever asked if we could get this done before she collected her purchase ) but you can't put them back. Sue. Castlemears herd, Forest of Dean
Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:11 pm
by Inger
Perhaps its different in the UK, but here in NZ, more people want dehorned or polled cattle rather than horned. The same goes for sheep. Selling polled animals is much easier. People hate having to dehorn calves.