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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:25 pm
by Broomcroft
I understand you are supposed to measure height at the hip bone, and we have discussed measurements. And it has been said that we seem to measure at 3 when the animal is still growing till 6! But the standard says measure at maturity doesn't it, which in my dictionary means when they've stop growing, so that's at 6 for a non-carrier. By that time the animal will have been registered for 5 years or more and if a bull on my farm, he will have sired about 280 calves by then!!! Bit late in the day really 
.
So, has anyone got any idea of how much a non-carrier will grow in height? I've got 2 at 18-20 months. They are miles below the standard, but they are non-short and what will they be like in 4.1/2 years time? Anyone got a clue or a table of growth rates?
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:37 pm
by Sylvia
Nothing scientific about this observation Clive but I think at a certain age non-ahorts start to sort of grow down so the overall height doesn't increase but the body depth does. But deciding what that height will be before the calf is 30 days requires 20/20 foresight, fortunate the breeders who have that.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:17 am
by Louisa Gidney
Broomcroft, not so much heights but if you are interested I can provide epiphysial fusion data ie when the individual bones stop growing. In fact all the major limb bones should be fused in an entire male by c. 4 years old, only the vertebral centra fuse after this, which does not affect the height, only the length of the back.
Castrates are another matter, if they are ringed as baby calves epihysial fusion can be delayed almost indefinitely so they will appear to never to stop growing. This was certainly the case with my oxen, which went on OTMS at 12 years old & may have been the biggest Dexters in Britain at the time.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:52 am
by Anna
Funny, the minute after I read Louisas post I got this link in my mail:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article2466722.ab
It is about an oxen who seems to never have stopped growing.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:00 am
by Saffy
He is 9 years old though isn't he and in fairness most of us cannot compete with that sort of age for a steer either!
When we used to run our holstein x friesiens steers on to a bit older in hope of getting a bit of condition on them they were huge.
Maybe if we kept our Dexters to 9 years old they would all be 6 feet 6 inches tall as well - thanks Louisa for a very interesting post!
Edited By Saffy on 1210759334
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:18 pm
by Rutherford
Hedgehog 3rd was born 10.5.96. He is no longer with me, so I cannot measure him, but I doubt whether he is much more than around 40”, I don’t think he has grown any for years, if he has it would have to be marginal. I am afraid I cannot give you a growth chart Clive, but the average size of all my stock at maturity has been static for years.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:50 pm
by Broomcroft
Castrates are another matter, if they are ringed as baby calves epihysial fusion can be delayed almost indefinitely so they will appear to never to stop growing. This was certainly the case with my oxen, which went on OTMS at 12 years old & may have been the biggest Dexters in Britain at the time.
That's amazing. You never stop learning. I have just taken two steers and the one was a very big lad. He was 24 months. I reckon he would have been well over 50" had he gone to 36 months. He was castrated in the first 2 weeks of life, weaned late (11-12 months) and on above average high protein and energy constantly. He was out of a non-short cow and by a short bull.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:43 pm
by Rutherford
Wagra has had difficulty in gaining access to the board and has written me asking me to put the following on:
any non-short heifer measuring over 90 cm at 8 months old weaning will eventually grow too tall for the breeder wanting to keep the height within breed standards, most of our cows stop gaining height at 5yo although a couple kept growing until 7yo. Bolenowe Chieftain was 115cm at 5yo , and 117cm at 7yo and then the same for the next 4 years.
Our measurements are taken across the sacrum with a sliding T-piece ruler, cm measurements on the upright, and with a spirit level in the cross bar. It helps if a second person can make sure the upright is perpendicular from the rear and the side view Our measurements are taken across the sacrum with a sliding T-piece ruler, cm measurements on the upright, and with a spirit level in the cross bar. It helps if a second person can make sure the upright is perpendicular from the rear and the side view
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:30 pm
by Broomcroft
I've only got one bull at 8 months and he's within 90 cm (that's 35"). He's a long-leg but shorter than usual, and has a lot of Woodmagic in him which is no doubt why. My other two are VERY roughly at the same height as my hip (about 40") at 19 months old, so could be borderline. I am surprised at the 35" at 8 months, I would have thought this would be a lot bigger when fully grown.
The measuring systems I have researched on the web, where they get really technical, state that an allowance should be made for the condition of the animal, i.e. the fat layer on top of the hip bone, and also that this can make a surprising differences (inches they say...on a big cow no doubt).
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:28 am
by wagra
Back on board, thanks Beryl and also Discussion Board Team. Just a slight correction Beryl, the bull was Bindalee Celtic Chieftain, not Bolenowe.
Clive, from the 40 females for which we have more complete data, the height gain from 8 to 12 months is 4-6 cms, from 12 to 18 mths 3-5cms, from 18 to 24 mths 2-4cms, 24 to 36 mths 2-3cms, 36 to 48 mths 1-2cms, 48 to 5yo 0-1 cm. Several are another cm higher in the next couple of years, but as you say, it could be meat or fat depending on condition, although not too many inches in Dexters I would't think. I don't have a complete run of any bull data.
These figures are from various sizes, but it looks as though any who are 97cm at 8 mths weaning are 112 to 113 at 3 years old, and way too tall at that for my liking, which is why we have brought the herd height down.
Margaret
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:30 pm
by Broomcroft
I plotted those figures in a worksheet Margaret, and that means that the 90 cm (35") 8 month old will reach between 102 and 111 cm at maturity (40" - 44").
If it was 97 cm (38") at 8 months, then it would reach 109-118 cm (43"-46.5").
So if we measure at 3 but the standard says at maturity, we should allow about 1-2" (25-50 mm) for future growth (for non-carriers).
Edited By Broomcroft on 1211031167
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:08 pm
by Saffy
How interesting, that is actually very similar to horses.
The rule of thumb has always been that an equine youngster will make at maturity, very approximately a hand - 4inches - more than they will be at 12 months.
Stephanie
Sorry to digress
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:21 pm
by Broomcroft
It also means that a bull measured at 3 years of age, who is at top end of the standard (48" isn't it?), may get to 50" at maturity.
I have put the chart I've created from Margaret's figures at http://www.cataylor.myzen.co.uk/Temp/HeightChart.html
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:14 pm
by Saffy
Thanks Margaret and Clive that is really useful info.
I for one shall keep it for future reference.
Stephanie
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 9:26 am
by Rutherford
Brilliant Clive, thank you so much, I too have filed it for future reference.
Beryl (Woodmagic)