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Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:44 pm
by ann
Ref registering heifers within 30 days, I don’t think you will be shot for saying what probably 80% of the membership think, when the breed was on the rare breeds lists, I doubt if any one did not register their heifers but we could send them in to be registered in batches, however this did create a lot of extra work and this was one of the reasons we ended up with the current situation.
However if we can send in cards for steers which have to be entered F.O.C onto the computer and probably create extra work at both ends, as if you don’t mention that they have been slaughter they are left on the system. Surely we could do the same for heifers, as long as they where registered before they where either mated or sold. This way most animals would be registered correctly regarding colour and horned or not, as even some animals which appear to be polled can develop horns later than 30 days. I can’t see why there is a problem with this school of thought, at least this way even if they where not registered until much later they would be on the system as their eartag numbers and dam and sire would have been recorded.
The present system is creating a situation where some nice stock are being lost, as once people have forgotten to register them, and unless they are prepared to pay the excessive over age fees them their pedigree animals progeny is Dexter in name only. I hope other people will post their thoughts on this subject as it would be interesting to see if my projection of member’s thoughts on this subject is way out or not.
When all is said and done council is only there to represent the wishes of the majority and if one on sticks their head up above the precipice how does council know our thoughts.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:33 pm
by Woodmagic
I agree with much of what you say, particularly the last paragraph. It seems tht we are losing animals where the cow is purchased by a newcomer, unaware of the regulations, they then baulk at the prohibitive cost of over age fees, and in some cases give up any idea of joining the Society. Most are aware that they have to obtain a passport.
When you are in full stream calving, time is usually scarce, if calves are coming in short time, it is easy enough to miss returning cards in time. I cannot see that dealing with them singly can do much for the time schedule in the office. The G.P.O.is the real winner. I would certainly put in a plea for some re thinking in the office on this one.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:22 pm
by Penny
I agree that there are advantages for most breeders if it could be done in batches. As well as good breeding stock presently being unregistered due to missing the deadline, there is also the scenario that poor breeding stock is being registed to keep within the deadline. If the breeder had more time to fully register stock, then maybe faults that become more obvious with time, such as poor gaits, will be recognised and the animal not registered and bred from.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:34 pm
by moomin
We always used to have to register within 3 months. This gave you time to assess your calf and decide whether it was good enough to keep or not.
It was also more cost effective in the office as it caused less work and less postage. When it was 3 months a member would send registrations in 4 times a year instead of possibly 12 times as at present. The secretary would then have to go into that members listing 4 times and post registration cards 4 times a year only .
The ruling was brought in just after cattle passports were. I was on council at that time and opposed the decision. It was supposed to stop people cheating! If people are dishonest about their breeding it doesn't matter whether it is 30 days or 3 months they would still be able supply false information.
I think we should go back to 3 months.
[Might be able to get the registration costs down a bit then as well].
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:38 pm
by carole
One quick question linked with this can anyone tell me how long you usually have to wait before receiving certificates after registering/notifiying change of ownership. Thanks
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:36 am
by Inger
Why do you have to register steers? They are meaningless to the list of breeding Dexters.
Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:11 am
by Sylvia
If you are unfortunate enough to have a TB incident and have not registered your steers they will be classed as commercial, not pedigree, at valuation despite the fact that you can prove they come from registered parents by their passports. Birth notification is not enough to secure pedigree status either. Just thought I'd mention this as it has just happened to me and it is almost more upsetting to have my obviously pedigree Dexters classed as commercial than to be losing them like this.
Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:30 am
by Inger
What difference does the classification between pedigree and commercial make?
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:51 pm
by forestblaze
firstly can I give my answer to Inger, I believe (rightly or wrongly) that it is important to register steers for two reasons, this gives you a official piece of paper to prove they are dexters and hence if you sell them they should be worth more, and also it means that your cows are credited with calving regularly as shown in the herd book (if ever we get one) which will hopefully increase their value.
Regarding the 30days or 3 months registration I would like to see the DCS brought into the 21st century and have a programme that you can enter online (in the same way as you can with CTS) then all calves could be notified at birth and registration could be sent by hard copy at a later date, enabling the breeder to decide if the animal is worth retaining or if it should be beefed, this sort of system would save not only the members but also the DCS time and money.
Bill Osborne, castlemears Dexters.
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:44 am
by Inger
That's a really good idea about registering on-line Bill. Trouble is, we have to send certificates of service, signed by the bull's owner, if we lease a bull. So that means we have to use ordinary mail.
I'd love to see your Herd Book completed too. I'd love to be able to buy a CD of it. I'm sure that a lot of overseas breeders would. :D
Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:38 pm
by forestblaze
Inger, sorry I used the word register when what I meant was notify, it would be easy to notify the birth of a calf on line and then if the breeder wished to register it at a later date then they would have to send the service certificate along with the appropriate fee, this system would mean that not only would the breeder be able to notify the birth the day it was born as they can with the cattle tracing system but it would save the office staff a lot of time and expence. Bill Osborne, Castlemears Dexters
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:38 am
by Sylvia
An excellent idea, Bill, which would solve a lot of problems, I'd be happy to lose a newsletter a year to pay for it if necessary.
Sylvia
Carmarthenshire, Wales
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:07 am
by Inger
We use a similar system for our registered pigs. We send in a registration form listing the birth of a litter and then at some time in the future, if we decide to register an individual pig, we can do so. We just quote the farrowing date and it all ties in. We don't pay to list the birth of a litter, just to register or transfer individual animals.
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:31 pm
by Sylvia
I note from the latest Bulletin that the office is having to deal with up to 4 or 5 late registrations PER WEEK, that is up to 260 a year. And these are only the hopeful souls who believe they can bend the rules,those of us who for one reason or another have missed the deadline and have no such expectations are probably at least triple or quadruple that. So possibly well over 1000 a year are not getting registered. I would like to bet that none of these have missed the BCMS registration. I would also suggest that the DCS really should be starting to think it is their system at fault, not entirely the fault of their members. How many of you would support a polite letter to DCS suggesting changes to their system of registration? ???
Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:51 pm
by Peter thornton
I certainly would support this.
The point is that penalties have to be carefully thought out. The added expense at 31 days is out of proportion to that of the cost of registering at 29 days. Why not simply charge an extra £5 for 10 days late then £10 for up to 30 days late?
The other point is the DNA palaver. If we can trust a member at 29 days what is different about 31 days? I know you have to draw the line somewhere but I would have thought that 6 months was a reasonable period after which the society might want extra proof.
Look at what the RPA do when a farmer claims late. I think it's 1% per day, or some such penalty.
And remember, an average heifer might have another 10 calves, all will be unregistered, if she is not registered in the first place.