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Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:39 pm
by Colin
On Thursday we had a bull calf born to a short leg cow. He's not been able to suckle either off his mum or off a bottle. Not surprising off his mum as her udder is just so huge as to beggar belief, with teats to match. We've taken some milk off her, but to no avail (she kicks like a mule and fortunately only one visit to A&E has been necessary on this occasion). We've had to stomach tube him to keep him going.
We got the vet out today and she diagnosed that his tongue and back of his throat seem to be physiologically abnormal so he's never going to suckle properly. So we've had no choice but to separate him from his mum and will try and get him to take to a bucket.
We'll pop his mum in the freezer at some point soon. We had a lot of similar problems with her feeding her calf last year, but he at least had a strong instinct to suckle.
This years calf looks very chunky, so I wonder if he's going to be a short leg. Difficult to tell from the leg length at the moment. Has anyone else experienced similar physiological problems from a short leg ?
Also anyone got any tips on how to get a young calf to take to a bucket ?
Colin
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:49 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Assuming that the calf has a sucking reflex, begin by allowing him to suck on one or two fingers, and gently lower the head into a bucket with some milk in till he begins to draw up some milk. The trick is to be patient as he will instinctively want to raise his head when sucking, but just keep on gently lowering it. Once he has learned that he gets milk when his head is down he will change and be quite happy to have the head down, and slowly the fingers can be removed after contact with the milk in the bucket is made.Try not to have the nostrils under the milk as well.
I wonder what sort of abnormality there is. This may put the process in some doubt, if he genuinely cannot suck there may be difficulty getting him to swallow. I assume your vet did not think that it was hopeless to keep on trying?
Duncan
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:55 am
by Colin
Thanks Duncan. I tried this morning with a bucket and hardly feel any sucking action at all from him. Will give him a chance, but I'm not optimistic.
Colin
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:13 am
by Saffy
Having reared over a 100 a year on the bucket this is one I recognise!!
If the calf is determined to hold his head up but will swallow well, holding two fingers of one hand in his mouth, use the other to scoop up a tiny amount of milk and trickle between those fingers. Keep doing it until he gets the idea.
They don't usually start to suck until your back is breaking by the way and that is when they are normal!
Once it is sucking your fingers up in the air you can then teach it to follow your fingers to the bucket and eventually gradually remove the fingers, the whole process can take well over a week, or even a fortnight with a slow one!!!
Good luck.
Stephanie
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:30 pm
by Colin
Thanks for the advice Stephanie. I tried the technique today and it's a very good one. The main challenge is his inability to suck properly. It's as if his tongue is too big for his mouth. So he keeps sticking it out rather than sucking. We'll persevere and see how it goes.
Colin
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:25 pm
by welshdexterboy
Hi Colin have you tried fitting a small teat to a bucket as sometimes they take to that easier than the bucket. They are easy to fit no plumbing skill needed. We used to have a five gallon drum and four teats, tie it in the air and four calves fed at once no problem. Good luck anyway.
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:39 pm
by Colin
Thanks Rob I'll bear that in mind too.
The situation is changing by the day. We've persevered with the calf, still not taking a bottle nor a bucket, but through milking around 7 pints off his mum, her udder became shrunken enough for him to latch onto one of her smaller teats and he suckled some milk off her.
That's the good news. The bad news is that his mum is very poorly. We got the vet out again last night. She had bad scour, had lost a lot of condition, looked very miserable and drooled saliva from her mouth. Vet doesn't think its salmonella, but her intestines were not functioning properly. The results of her blood test today indicate her kidneys and liver are failing. She was looking very poorly tonight.
The vet isn't sure yet of the cause and she's being treated with various things including antibiotics, she's had a calcium and magnesium drip and drenches. One possibility the vet mentioned today is fluke.
We bought her 14 months ago, so if it is fluke, I'd like to know whether this came with her or whether she could have picked it up from our land. Our field and adjoining wood don't have any streams or ponds, although it can get waterlogged in places during very wet winter weather. 11 days ago we moved her to some new pasture over a mile away which does have a small stream and boggy areas.
So if it is fluke, how long would it take from infection to cause such serious symptoms ? My cattle ailments book doesn't mention this. Also what are the implications for the rest of the herd ? We've got mature cows and young calves.
Anybody got any experience of this ?
Colin
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:54 pm
by Colin
Sad news this evening as the old girl slipped away. Things had been going so well up until this point. Hoping to get a post mortem if we can carry her to a trailer. Calf is reasonably lively, though we're still not able to get him on a bottle or bucket. But he's getting lots of TLC, so fingers crossed he gets the hang of it soon.
Colin
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:57 pm
by Saffy
Oh Colin - so sorry to hear the news about your cow, we have our fingers crossed that you manage to rear the calf.
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:50 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Sorry to hear about the cow. While fluke is a possibility the prepatent period, ie from taking in the immature fluke to eggs being passed in the dung is 14 weeks. If you have not seen fluke on your ground before it is possible that she brought some with her. Or they may have been there at low levels and multiplied recently. In our part of the West of Scotland we are seeing more and more fluke and a large number of dairy farms have to dose adult cattle - tricky as there is no fluke product without a substantial milk withdrawal period so they just have to do them as they dry off rather than whole herd treatment at the right times.
Fluke can also allow other infections such as salmonella do do more damage and SAC, our veterinary investigation service in Scotland, link the two quite often.
Sadly I suspect only a post mortem will give you any answers, I hope you manage to get her transported. I always think it is best if the whole post mortem can be done in the Veterinary Investigation centre, they are working in much better conditions than us vets in the field, and can take all the appropriate samples without contamination. I have been wondering if the birth was prolonged if the cow was a bit down and some of the calf's problems are the result of tongue swollen due to long delivery and the brain not top notch due to oxygen lack. Just speculation though.
Duncan
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:06 am
by Colin
Thanks Duncan. Interesting your comments on whether the calf may have had an oxygen shortage. The two vets who visited also wondered the same. His behaviour did seem a little different to our other calves. Our other calves rested a lot for the first day or two and then suddenly sprang into life. He's done the opposite and was running around very quickly after birth before losing energy as we struggled to feed him.
We've found a professional dead animal haulier to pick up the cow and she's being taken this morning to a veterinary laboratory for a full post mortem. We've still no real idea what has happened so very interested in the result.
Colin
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:10 am
by Inger
If the calf's slowness is a result of brain trauma due to a difficult birth, it could take some time for the swelling to go down.
Duncan, would an anti inflamatory be of any use in a case like this? With lambs, they usually die. I haven't seen it in calves.
This is another case where I feel that carriers are a much greater risk when it comes to calving. Nearly all the calving difficulties we've had with Dexters have been with carriers. Which is why I'm looking forward to clearing them out of our herd, in the long run.
I've only had to pull one calf from a non-carrier heifer and she just wouldn't dilate properly. If she has problems calving again this year, she'll have a place reserved for her on the freezer list. After the last of our old carrier cows.
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:04 pm
by Saffy
Hi Colin,
Just wondering if the calf is OK?
Stephanie
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:38 pm
by Colin
Hi Stephanie. In terms of his condition he's doing well. He's getting a lot of TLC and is responding as a result.
In terms of him feeding himself, we're making progress but not quite there yet. He's got more control of his tongue and has been able to suck, both from my fingers (using your technique) and milk from a small foal teat and bottle. He's also been able to feed himself some calf nuts from a bucket and sipped some water. But we've not yet got him to drink milk from a bucket. I think he may be a sandwich short of a picnic basket when it comes to this, but he's coming and is a lovely little chap.
We had a very experienced local cattle herdsman look at him this morning and he wasn't worried about him. He's left us with a bucket and attached teat, so we'll persevere with that.
We're still awaiting the post mortem result on his mum.
I'll keep you posted on how things go.
Thanks for the interest,
Colin
Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:19 pm
by Saffy
Thanks for the update, sounds as if youv'e got the drop on him now.
Stephanie