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Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:10 pm
by ann
Hi I just got one of my bulls back this morning and the person who had him on loan has a cow down with magnesium deficiency. If you still have cows outside with calves suckling them you need to make sure your cows are getting enough magnesium either with good quality molasses Plus mag buckets or better still by giving then some hard feed with cal mag mixed in this way you know they are getting it as not all cattle will use the buckets. If you have a cow off colour at this time of year, don't hang about get a vet's advice as this problem can quickly kill a cow if not treated correctly
Ann 
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:59 am
by Rutherford
May I reinforce your excellent advice. I have heard so often from a sad late owner that they have been advised there was no risk because----. I would say that if your cow is out at grass and working hard for its living, then play safe. It may be partly global warming which has sent our seasons senseless, but I have met up with many cases well ‘out of season’. I have been advised that it is generally more common these days, and it may be the greater use of cross Friesians in the general suckler population also contributes. Dexter gives a lot of milk for its size and may be more vulnerable than the more beefy suckler who will not be pushing out so much milk. Calves can also go down with it; they will exhibit nervous symptoms twitching and blinking, and a high stepping action when moving. The onset is slightly slower and there is usually time to take remedial action, if you are quick – injection of magnesium. They will probably be more likely to use a lick if they are introduced to it early, failing that, two sheep bullets will cover them for three weeks when they turn two months of age and become open to it. Once they are consuming sufficient hard food and not relying on a large milk supply to cover all their needs, they are safe.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:21 pm
by Broomcroft
I've got sheep in with my cows in most fields. Any ideas? Or is it a matter of must separate?
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:56 pm
by ann
Hi Clive
I'd play safe if you are not feeding any hard feed and seperate the sheep and cows suckling calves, you shouldn't hopefully have any problems with in calve heifers or steers.
ann
Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:06 pm
by Penny
Yes, it is a strange season.
My cattle have all been on good haylage for sometime now, alternated with some lovely hay,even though there is a good amount of grass. They also have a molassed lick. HOWEVER, a nine year old cow with a strong little heifer calf at foot suddenly went down with what the vet first thought was Milk Fever, but proved to be Nervous Acetonaemia. As Beryl described, she was high stepping, trembling and twitching, and almost blind so that she was hard to approach as she was scared about what she could sense. This is due to low blood sugar, so despite her seemingly good diet and supplements, she, and the other group of old girls she was with, were given a very small amount of sugar beet pellets or maize once a day. She has made a full recovery, but then my 16 year old with a similar aged calf became obviously unwell and in pain. She has developed an impacted Abdomasum, apparently because she is not used to getting any supplementary feeding, despite it only being a small quantity. So by trying to prevent one condition, I had initiated another.
It certainly is going to be a season for watching feed, as so much was cut late due to the weather, and watching minerals.
Both cows now well, but as I am about to go into the winter calving time, I am watching all the stock extremely carefully and with a certain amount of paranoia!
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:26 am
by Tricky
Clive
I've got sheep in with my cows in most fields. Any ideas? Or is it a matter of must separate?
Crystalyx's standard high mag lick is made with no copper so it can be used when mixed grazing, as ewes can be prone to mag problems in spring when working hard.
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:08 am
by Jo Kemp
I think Tricky that it is the STANDARD crystalyx which can be given to both sheep & cattle (black box) It is reasonably high in magnesium though not as high as the high mag (green box) meant for cattle only
Clive, I am using the black box at the moment as I have sheep + tups in with cattle - necessary as am using 5 tups! so need 7 tup proof fields!
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:13 pm
by Broomcroft
I've got some sheep licks with 3.5% mag (instead of 15%) so I'll put those in field for now where I can't separate the animals. I have though separated my cows with calves and they've now have full-blown 15% mag licks.
Thanks, I didn't know and was obviously heading for a problem.
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:31 pm
by Issy
Mine have access to a high mag lick (17.5%) suitable for both cows and sheep but what is Cal Mag to add to the hard feed. Is it Epsom Salts and how much do you add?
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:20 am
by Rutherford
There is no connection between Epsom salts and Calcium Magnesium. The latter is highly unpalatable, so adding it yourself to a feed can be tricky. The magnesium acts as a muscle relaxant, and one way to help in retaining the magnesium in the cow is by feeding her extra fibre or something to slow down the digestion, Epsom salts has the opposite effect! If you decide to put it in the cow via the feed, you are better to rely on a feed merchant to cope with the headache of making it palatable. Most of the licks rely on molasses to hide the taste.
Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:09 am
by Issy
Thank you Beryl. I think I will stick to the lick. They have a small amount of nuts a day and always access to hay and straw so hopefully we are doing it ok.
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:40 am
by Saffy
I have been trying to find out more about the magnesium for use in water tanks. I believe it is called Rumag Aqua, as I would like to use it. This would be a convenient way to get magnesium into my cattle.
The info so far from my vet is that he believes it is unsuitable in galvanised tanks as it reacts with the galvanise and cannot then be used by the animal, unless they have changed or improved the product recently. All my tanks are galvanised.
I have asked the nutritionalist at my feed firm about it because he had advised to use it he promised me an answer within an hour but then didn't get back to me. So I cannot seem to get any more information I hope perhaps someone reading this knows the answer or can get to the bottom of it for me. I wonder is there a way around it.
So if anyone is using magnesium in a galvanised water tank please check the label VERY carefully it may be useless.
Stephanie Powell
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:29 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
A couple of things worth remembering
Stress may be difficult to define but definitely plays a part. It may be stress of bad weather, changes in feeding, or travel. After such events we need to be extra vigilant, I got caught out after moving two cows in March. A week later one was dead, and the other had a magnesium level so low I don't know how she was standing. I did not pamper them enough after a long journey, and thought all would be well since it was nice mild weather and they had plenty of older grass and good hay to eat.
I took her inside immediately, gave her a bottle of Magnesium sulphate under the skin, two Rumbul bullets down, and fed her quite generously on cake for 6 or 8 weeks and she has been ok. She is currently inside despite the fact that the others are all outwintered just because I think she is at higher risk. She fed both her own calf and the orpaned one all summer and put on weight as well.
Another point is that especially with sizeable groups of cattle some will probably never ever take any licks. Whilst I usually have lick available I try to give them high magnesium cobs just fed on the ground if I think the risk is high.
A third and rather sad point is that it is always easier to appreciate risks when the dreaded has happened to you yourself. For some of us at least. It is so easy to see looking back what we did not see looking forward.
Duncan
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:42 pm
by Colin
Stephanie,
A local smallholder (who had once lost a Dexter to staggers) recommended to me to add magnesium to the drinking water. I sought advice from my local agricultural merchants and bought a 25kg bag of magnesium chloride. It looks like (and probably is) sea salt as it's produced in Israel by a company called Dead Sea Works. So I've been adding a handful of that to the water trough. I've seen nothing in relation to it reacting with the metal. Not had any problems so far (touch wood). Might be worth looking into it.
Colin
Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:54 am
by Nikola Thompson
We have had a problem before with lack of magnesium. Now we have licks in all our fields. We were advised not to put them on the ground due to the badgers and TB. There has been TB near us and no travelling cattle. We tie the licks to the gates and they are a large size lick but it seems to work.