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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:40 pm
by Broomcroft
Can I ask the experts, yet again probably, so many apologies, if you have a tested non-carrier bull and put him to cows that are carriers (or the ones I am talking about look like carriers for sure to me), then what do you get in terms of carrier or non-carrier offspring? i.e what percentage would be carriers or non-carriers?
And also, what would you expect to get physically? Meaning, would you expect to get 50% short legs and 50% long legs, or all long legs?
Note: The bull I am talking about is a non-short, non-carrier.
Edited By Broomcroft on 1204137690
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:16 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Carriers have one bulldog gene paired with one normal length gene. Non carriers have two normal length genes. They pass these on to next generation so you will get half with a normal gene from each parent and half with one normal from the non carrier and one bulldog gene. In traditional terms 50% long legs and 50% short legs.
Duncan
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:18 am
by Inger
But, as in our case. In the two years we've used a carrier bull on a few non-carrier cows, we've only had two carrier calves from him.
We've used a non-carrier bull on the very few carrier cows that we have and had carrier twins, plus two other carrier calves in the five years we've used him.
Then again, you might get all carrier calves one year, in the same way that all of our 11 calves born last year were bulls. Its luck of the draw. :D The average will work out to 50% though.
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:22 am
by Sylvia
But you might have to wait a lifetime for it. I firmly believe you generally get what you don't want, this is not some new-fangled, new-age thinking - it is Sod's Law. You may however get 50/50 if you don't mind what you get. 
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:38 am
by Broomcroft
That why I asked. I've had loads of calves from carrier cows and there is only one calf that looks like he just might be a carrier. All the others look like normal non-shorts and I assume non-carriers! Maybe half of them are long-leg carriers?
I have always assumed that although carriers are not necessarily short, generally they are. If 50% of the offspring from a carrier/non-carrier coupling are carriers and my calves are all long-leg, then I have long-leg carriers being born.
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:00 am
by Duncan MacIntyre
Clive, rest assured that in the conventional meaning of long and short leg in the dexter world, you do not have long leg carriers. They do not exist. You may have some short legs which vary a bit, but there is probably much more variation in the non-carrier animals resulting in animals which look short legged but are in fact long.
Duncan
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:33 pm
by Colin
In simple terms there is a dwarf gene and a normal gene. Genes come in pairs where the calf inherits one half of the pair from each parent. So a dwarf + dwarf pairing is a bulldog; dwarf + normal pairing is a short leg (carrier animal); normal + normal pairing is a non-short.
Non-shorts will all have a natural variation in size, so some will have longer legs than others. But they are non-carriers of the dwarf gene.
Colin
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:46 pm
by Rutherford
In common with most experienced Dexter breeders I can usually tell a carrier on sight. However, I would never stake my life on it, only a DNA test could tell you for certain. The snag about using a mixed herd will be that you can never be sure. As long as you stick to a tested non-carrier bull, you can be sure of avoiding the bulldog, but his daughters out of carrier cows should not be put to a bull of unknown credentials, or you risk a bulldog. My herd consists entirely of non-carriers, so I know I cannot breed a carrier. Beryl (Woodmagic)
Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:02 pm
by Inger
I've sometimes found it hard to tell the calves apart, when they are first born, but it becomes more clear as they get older.
The complication for us is that we have two forms of chondrodysplasia possible and they can have different appearances. The NZ version is easier to spot that the International version I think.
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:04 pm
by Nikola Thompson
Beryl. I have a bull that has your breeding (different prefix) and he is a non carrier with quite short legs (he is tested as a non carrier). Because of this he produces lovely non shorts that are non too leggy and we can put him to our shorts as well. Are most of your herd on the shorter side even though they are non carriers? We are really pleased with our bull.
Nikola
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:49 am
by Rutherford
I was thrilled to read your comments. It is always nice to know your breeding has done some good somewhere else. Yes, I have for years aimed to produce an animal that was not too far from my first love - the recognised short leg, - but didn’t carry the bulldog factor, and I have been reasonably successful. It is music to my ears that someone else is having success with it.
Beryl (Woodmagic)