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Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:36 am
by Broomcroft
There is an anonymous readers letter is the Bulletin that is quite anti-dexter beef and pointing out to readers "what is going on" on this discussion board (that's how I read it).
The writer clearly doesn't understand how dexter beef is produced or why, or at least on the farms I know (maybe there are others where some freaks are being created but I'm not aware of them). It is good that different views can be expressed though.
I have prepared a reply pointing out how the beef is produced, and why maintaining animals within the breed standard, as I see it, is crucial. I hope they will publish in it the next Bulletin because I find the letter quite disturbing and divisive, as well as largely if not entirely wrong.
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:51 pm
by Sylvia
You beat me to it, Clive. I've just got the bulletin and I noticed the anonymous letter. I had some trouble trying to decide what point he/she was trying to make but I had no trouble thinking that anonymous letters have no place in a publication of this sort. If there is a point to be made for goodness sake have the courage of your conviction and put your name to it. I wonder why they can't access this site, or have they been banned?
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:32 pm
by Mark Bowles
Hi Sylvia, i havent seen the bulletin yet, but this sounds interesting.
No one, i repeat, NO ONE...... is banned from this site knowingly. I must admit some people come up with strange user names that make me wonder if its a wind up, some are passed and some rejected. If someone really wants to use the site then whats wrong with there own name? it would make my life easier, or send me an email.
I reject something in the region of 60 to 70 dodgy memberships a week, these seem to be from advertisers of all sorts of products mostly not nice, trust me.
I do know 1 council member that claims he is banned ( no names) but that is not the case.
Mark
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:02 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
It is a pity that the author is not named, but we need to look calmly at what the letter says and why the author might have felt the need to say it. Perhaps it is not written with a devisive motive at all, but rather the opposite. The writer seems to be pointing out that an approach to increasing the viabiltiy of larger scale beef production by Dexter owners which involves significant increase in carcase size is not in the long term interests of the breed. There is no case being made against beef production, though it is pointed out that it is very difficult to enter direct competition with more commercial beef production. The issue of changing the size of Dexters is something that I feel strongly about and have spoken against the trend to larger animals many times in many places and to many people. The most outstanding feature of the breed is its small size. If we lose that, we have lost the single most important distinguishing feature, which more and more sets us apart from other breeds. Others may wish to mimic the Dexter, and produce small breeds to rival us, but they will never have the make up of the Dexter. We must as breeders be custodians of the make up of the breed, and we make significant alterations to that at our peril.
Let us increase sales of Dexter meat by all means, but lets not alter the breed simply to do that. We have a breed which despite its distinctive character has more genetic diversity, more ability to cope with wide variations in climate, feed, management systems, and in short be the most versatile of breeds.
To preserve the breed we must preserve tolerance of all its facets, be it long or short, black red or dun, horned or polled, be it kept for beef or dairy, or just for show. No one can look at a Dexter and not identify the breed, but if we allow a drift upwards we will loose our single most important feature.
Duncan
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:43 am
by Sylvia
Is anyone attempting to increase the size of Dexters for meat production, or any other, purposes?
If they are could they please let us know.
Of the few breeders producing beef that I know of all are carefully preserving the Dexter as described in the breed standard.
I suspect that there may be more non short animals now that the means of avoiding bulldog calves is widely known. In addition people breeding shorts have been thoroughly discouraged (on this board) and it is the shorts who typify the breed. So maybe that gives the impression that the breed is getting bigger, but I really wish the writer of the letter would tell us which breeders he/she believes are damaging the breed by breeding to increase its size.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:29 am
by Martin
Although I have not yet recieved my Bulletin (damned postal strike) I have to agree with Duncan about the atributes of the Dexter. I breed only for beef and the odd replacement, last year four out of five calves where heifers and I needed a replacement. When it came to putting the bull with the cows this year I decided that the two that where the best where to big (I only breed non short to non short) so none of them went to the bull. this year I have a promising heifer that is much smaller than any of those from last year and have decided that she will probably come into the herd as a breeder. Some of my cows are near the limit on height but as I wish to keep my cows as a registered herd I will not be keeping any that stray from the breed standard.
As the Chairman of our local group a letter from me was recently published in our bi monthly newsletter in which I stated that 'the different types within the breed add to its character and popularity' (my view). Although in the past I have discussed cross breeding (for beef) I believe we should keep to the breed standards for our cows and reject any that do not conform. Last night I was browsing the internet with Dexters as my search and came across quite a few herd web sites, on one it stated that in their view the Dexter had become too popular with the smaller breeder as they (the small breeder) where in the main, unwilling to kill something that they had produced and expected that every heifer should be sold for breeding and most bull calves also kept to the detriment of the breed, she also stated that in the 10 years that she had been keeping Dexters that she had noticed a significant fall in the quality of dexters offered for sale. So there is a multitude of views and opinions that we must all listen to, just remember that most are one persons opinion only, and that we must consider what is best for the Dexter breed as a whole.
When I do recieve my Bulletin I will read the letter and make my mind up about its content and the author's reasons for writing it, but has anyone considered that they may have achieved their aim and provoked discussion?
Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:19 pm
by Woodmagic
My reactions were very similar to Sylvia’s; I really could not be certain what the complaint was about, or why ‘he or she’ should remain anonymous In fact, we have simply had discussions with no conclusions being drawn. The real asset for the board is that it is independent and merely a forum for all views. I too, decided I must reply. It looks as if ‘Readers letters’ is going to be quite an item in the next issue. There were certainly some of our contributors who advocated going bigger, but it would appear from the above that they are in the minority. I admit I hope the trend will be for the non-short, but in any case it is precisely the same animal with or without the bulldog gene, my worry is that the short leg often disguises the bigger animal.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:27 pm
by Broomcroft
On size, we have a breed standard and we work to it. End of story as far as I am concerned. If people have different personal views within that standard, I don’t have a problem with it.
If you lose the small size (and by small I mean “within standard”), you lose the intense flavour and the producers I know will say the same. Try to produce dexter beef from over-sized animals, fed commercial style, then you will damage the special flavour and substantial health benefits of our beef, and damage our standing. It takes years to build a reputation and five minutes to destroy it. If there is somebody out there with this in mind, please, please don’t do it, there are much better options.
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:21 pm
by Jo Kemp
Oooooooooo I wish my bulletin was here so I could join in!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:33 pm
by happy hollidays
I was pleased to receive my copy today, some great articles, pictures and facts. Fabulous news that Dexters are fifth most popular breed here now, a lot of hard work has gone into this turnaround, thanks to all that assisted. The annonymous letter is unsettling in a time of stress and strains. Why write a piece and not put your name to it, what exactly are they trying to say? Are they living in the minority, with no access to even a library computer?! Those who farm commercially have chosen the dexter for its wonderful abilities and do so knowing it has financial drawbacks. Surely it would be a good time to channel all these dexter owners to fight for lower slaughter costs and thus there would be no reason to keep breeding taller cattle. If we are the fifth most popular breed, lets make it known to the governemt and those who make the rules. On a lighter note I thought the economic model with cows was very amusing.
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:20 pm
by welshdexterboy
Perhaps he is unable to use the site simply because he/ she doesn't have a computer. I would have thought the majority of people who breed more for the beef than to show are selling their fine produce themselves to make maximum profit as most people, and this may be a sweeping statement, only have a few or at the most tens per year to sell. This in itself makes problems with competing with the commercial beef producer as they can provide the numbers every day that any big shop or chain would require were as we provide quality not quantity for the more discerning customer. Time to stop-- this is starting to sound like a M&S advert 
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:58 pm
by Rob R
The reader appears to know about the debate, but not the content of it on this site.
Those who sell direct have no trouble selling minced beef, in fact it probably sells better than the fillet (much overrated anyway, in my opinion). Those that do invest the time & money into retail outlets often don't have the production capacity to meet demand, so through cooperation there is no reason why everyone cannot benefit from direct sales. He/she also seems under the impression that breeding for weight/size is a primary objective in a 'commercial' beef enterprise- the best beef breeders realised a long time ago that size isn't everything, and a compact composite cow can produce more £ per acre (which is the important bit).
There are no benefits in keeping the Dexter as a 'showpiece' animal that has only novelty value, neither is their any benefit in breeding for a larger animal that has none of the USPs of quality & size. If the Dexter wishes to get into the 'commercial' beef market, who in their right mind would set about trying to make it something that it is most definitely not? (ie big). The Gloucester is not big, but it has found a way into commercial production by crossing with the Simmental which produces a commercial sized carcass from a low maintenance dam. The Dexter, like every other breed, will only ever find a 'commercial' market as a crossing animal with a pedigree nucleus to provide good quality replacements.
I however, don't think there is a need for the Dexter to do this, and it's certainly not doing that here. I chose the Dexter after buying some braising steak that was simply the best beef I had ever tasted, and that is the main selling point we have with the breed.
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:03 am
by Saffy
Like Welshdexterboy suggests, when looking at herds in order to choose what type of dexter to go for we did come across a breeder who complained about lack of access to the site due to geographical position and lack of home computer. So I know this can be a problem for owners.
This was one of the first herds we saw, however we were NOT impressed that this breeder wished to breed bigger dexters, as this would make them more commercially viable. We thought it was bonkers. Bad for the breed. After all the whole point of a dexter is surely that it is small isn't it ?! This is what makes it a dexter - they even named a tractor after it!!! If this person wanted a bigger dexter it had already been done exeedingly well in that neck of the woods and IS called Welsh Black!
Stephanie
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:25 am
by Broomcroft
I agree and when we talk about size, which is the subject that Dexter keepers can get het-up about, we need to put figures to it otherwise someone's small is another persons big! We work to the breed standard and try and keep well within it, although I do have one cow that is probably on the limit mainly because she is high at the back end, like a dragster.
Question (and it is relevant)...How heavy is a fully grown adult Dexter cow when they are somewhere near the top of the breed standard?
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:33 am
by Saffy
Well Broomcroft,
The cow that was for sale at the herd I mention was certainly quite tall but very nicely proportioned in every way, a very nice animal indeed, just big.
Surely weight is a very inaccurate measurement as some are well um - very fat ?! ???
Stephanie