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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:48 pm
by Kativa
HELP !
My cow that calved on Tuesday still has not cleansed.My vet said to wait to 4 to 5 days post calving before he needs to intervene , if she is well.Of course day 5 is tomorrow - Sunday !
She did this last year and my vet did visit and pulled it out and put a bolus .......! She did seem to take a lot longer to concieve last year , could it be connected ?
She seems well and calf is doing OK ..any advice anyone...? Duncan..?
Thanks
Jo
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:05 pm
by Broomcroft
I only catch about half mine cleansing, less than that outside, but never had a problem so far in 80 calvings. The rest have eaten it before you get there unless you're watching them round the clock. Just had 8 new calves and only found 3 lots to clear up. They are outside. My vet says if they look well enough leave them alone, but I'm not giving advice.
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:26 pm
by Kativa
Thankyou Clive , She actually has it hanging out of her rear end , so I can't miss it ! She is eating and drinking , feeding and loving her calf , so I will try not to panic !
Jo
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:16 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
If she is well and fit I would not worry about doing anything till Monday, unless your vet would particularly want to attend to her on the 5th day. There are as many views on the right way to deal with a retained placenta in a cow as there are days in the year, so no particular method is necessarily right or wrong. In beef cows I think a great many get no treatment at all. If one of my Dexters had a retained cleansing I would probably go for manual removal the next day, as long as the cotyledons were easy to separate. If they would not separate I would put her on antibiotics to reduce the risk of a persistent metritis which can cause delay in conception of the next calf, but as I said I think a lot of beef suckler cows in the commercial world get no treatment at all. If one of those becomes ill I would have her on antibiotic injections right away, not waiting till the cow becomes seriously ill which does happen in a very small proportion of cases.
Duncan
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:45 pm
by Kativa
Thankyou very much Duncan , I will sleep better tonight now!
Obviously I won't try and manually remove it myself !
I did wonder if she was late conceiving due to retaining it last year. Is she likely to retain it another year ? I'm wondering if it's a bit like laminitis in the horse , once they've had it once they are prone to it.
Thanks
Jo
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:05 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
I am not aware of any particular individual predisposition to retained placenta, but then I am not a world authority on the subject. The main factors which get blamed for high incidence of it are twins, any interuption to the normal birth process, and selenium/vit E deficiencies. There may well be others I should have included and anyone is welcome to add to the list. I do notice in dairy herds that each farm will go through a spell where they seem to have a lot to do, as though it were some sort of infectious disease. I remember one of the older farmers on Bute telling me that the vet of 3 generations ago thought that it was "smitill" - ie infectious and that one cow could "smit" or infect, another with this "ill". What we have to remember of course is that any influence such as vit E defiiency, which has affected one cow in a herd is extremely likely to affect the others, and resulting troubles may look as though they are caused by infection.
Duncan
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:05 pm
by ann
A tip I got from the Aussies which has worked very well for me is to tie a small bag of sand probably around 6 - 8 oz's ( I use a couple of plastic bags and some string) to the part of the cleansing which is hanging out and as the cow moves around the motion of the bag of sand will slowly exert pressure on the cleansing so that it is eventually expelled. You may have to move the bag up after a day or two but this really does work and it much cheaper than a vet visit. 
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:31 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Often things advocated are only a matter of degree, I used to know an old farmer, now dead and gone, who advocated tying a 56lb weight on, at the end of the day it does not matter a jot, if the intricate fingers of placental tissue and maternal tissue are gong to separate then they will, if not, they won't. This is something I have learned by experience - so now my approach is if the cow will manually cleanse easily at day one, so be it. If not, then do not persist trying, leave it alone and give her antibiotics. Tying weights on is not a realistice help nor is it welfare friendly to the cow.
Duncan.
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:32 pm
by Penny
I'd agree.
Tie it up so that it does not drag on the ground, and the weight will help it along. Also look at possible vitamin deficiencies.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:21 am
by wagra dexters
Our vet gives antibiotics if the calf has had to be turned or pulled, ie following any intrusion. If retained placenta is a problem he will provide utozyme for me to insert. A couple of times I have had to follow up every 3 or 4 days with another pessary. The longest was 16 days. A bit on the nose.
Since injecting with B12 plus selenium, or alternatively an oral drench of a vitamin & mineral product, we have had no difficult deliveries or retained placenta, touch wood.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:01 am
by Kativa
Thankyou guys !
When do you need to give the vitamin injection or drench in the farming calender ......ie how long after bulling or what time of year etc etc..
My other cows ( all 3 of them ! ) calved fine and cleansed fine.
Again , thankyou everyone
Jo
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:41 am
by Mark Bowles
I would be inclined to think it is deficient vitamins. What we do is spread "GRASSTRAC" on the fields, 1 bag per acre approx £12 per bag, anytime of the year, keep the animals off for 10 days then its fine. It needs to be done every 2 years.
We had a spell 3 years ago when we had a dispropotionate number of calves backwards, difficult calvings, and even the odd calf born dead. Since applying grasstrac the last 3 years ( 60 plus calves ) it has been 100%.
That to me is a result!
Soil testing did show we were short on some minerals beforehand so it seemed to prove a point.
Mark
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:34 pm
by wagra dexters
Mark's GRASSTRAC sounds the best option for a smaller pasture property. The company that makes our oral drench has a similar product. The oral drench we use can just be added to water where troughs are used.
We use B12 plus selenium 4 weeks before Spring calving is due to begin. Then we use the drench about 4 weeks before joining.
Two flighty cows respond dramatically, becoming quite calm, following either treatment, and remain calm for several months. About twice a year for both treatments seems to be ideal, alternating.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:28 pm
by Inger
I've used Raspberry Leaf Tea to good effect for retained placentas. Six teabags steeped in a litre of just boiled water, allow to cool a bit, then pour over a portion of hard feed (I use mooslee) and leave it to soak in. With a bit of molasses drizzled over the top, it is quite acceptable to the cow. I fed this to the animal twice a day for 2 to 3 days and that seems to sort things out.
I have found that leaving a multi-mineral block out for the cows year-round, seems to have reduced this problem to a minimum. I feel that it is a mineral imbalance which causes it.
Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:19 am
by Kativa
Thanks so much everyone for your advice and input.
My vet is coming out today to sort the old girl out but will certainly follow advice for next year and if I have the same problem again I will definately try Inger's receipe.
Thanks guys
Jo