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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:50 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Hello Di,
Sorry to hear the sad tale - always disappointing when the expected does not arrive. Foetal reabsorbtion is unlikely to happen except very early in the pregnancy. When the foetus has any size and substance to it if it were to die for any reason it would most likely be aborted, and it is surprising how often this can happen and the cow not show any outward sign or the foetus be seen. If the scan results can be confirmed it would seem most likely that the calf has been aborted and not seen. Legally all bovine abortions in UK must be reported to the local DEFRA office, and most beef ones are investigated for brucellosis. Dairy cattle which have been milking into a bulk tank within one month of the loss of calf generally are not investigated as the milk is checked regularly. You should ask your vet what they would do in the circumstances. They could do a rectal pregnancy diagnosis, and if a sample is being collected for ministry purposes ask them to do "abortion serology" privately for your own interest - this would include BVD, Leptospirosis, IBR and Neospora.
I hope that does not seem to scary for your early "Dextering Days". Those watching this board will be pleased to hear how you get on.
Duncan
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:47 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Extremely brief and incomplete,
BVD is a viral disease of cattle which causes a wide variety of signs, most importanly reducing resistance to other diseases, foetal deaths, abortions, deformed calves, mucosal disease with diarrhoea, wasting, ulcers in mouth and on feet. The really important part of BVD is the existence of Persistently Infected individuals which result from early/mid pregnancy infection of the dam. These are veritable virus factories and produce virus as long as they live. This is often not very long but they can live long enough to produce calves themselves which are always PI. Most animals which encounter infection for the first time only carry the virus for a few weeks, they cannot become PI's
Vaccines are available and veterinary advice is important to assess when they will be of benefit and the importance of testing for PI individuals in the herd before proceeding.
IBR is another viral diseas which causes mostly respiratory signs with the trachea grossly inflamed, running eyes and nose, and often secondary pneumonia. There are some strains which cause a high proportion of abortions. Once infected always infected even though the signs go, so if it is to be eradicated from a herd all reactors must be culled. Again several vaccines are available in UK.
Leptospirosis is a group of bacterial diseases the important one in UK cattle being caused by Leptospira Harjo. Other diseases in the group include L Canicola causes kidney disease in dogs, and L Icterohaemorrhagiae, causes liver and kidney disease in a wide range of species including humans, often called Weils disease, got from rats. The bovine strain can infect humans too. It causes milk drop, infertility and abortions in cattle. Vaccines are available.
Neospora is a protozoan organism similar to Toxoplasma. It causes persistent infection in cattle associated with abortions and dogs and foxes are an important source of infection in cattle.
Duncan
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:03 pm
by Jo Kemp
I take it you have put the cow with bull calf in calf again - have you checked whether she has held (either AI or bull) I do wonder about mineral deficiency. When we lived in Derbyshire a neighbour couldn't get her 2 brood mares in foal and therefore thought it was a problem with the stallion. When he was sold, he fathered quite promptly and an iodine deficiency in fodder was diagnosed. Derbyshire is reknown as being iodine deficient.
Good luck, Jo
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:52 pm
by Rebecca
When your cow aborted last time did you have any tests done on her?
We bought a heifer that aborted at about 4 months (never found the foetus). She was run with our bull and I am sure was pregnant again (had udder changes) but again no calf. So, we had her checked and she had neospora. Later found out she was a premmie calf herself - can be an indication of neospora because it is carried by the mother and transmitted to calves in utero. Most cows will abort nearly everytime. Some will carry some calves to term, some have premature calves. Any heifer calves will carry Neospora and pass it on to any of their female offspring. Keeping bull calves for breeding is not a problem as it is transmitted in utero, however you do not want to keep heifers. Also, any infected cow will pass infective agent with aborted/calving materials and if eaten by foxes and dogs they can then transmit it to other cows by passing it in their faecal matter. It is really not worth keeping a neospora carrier as you can end up contaminating other members in the herd.
If it was me I would check the mother cow for neospora. If she is negative then at least you have ruled out one problem and can start looking for problems that are hopefully fixable (neospora isn't). If she is positive then the heifer most likely is too, check her to make sure. Then turned them into lovely beef and start again. You really want to make sure that this isn't a problem before you bring any other cows/heifers onto the property.
Sorry to be a pessimist and really hope it is something you can fix, like mineral deficiencies.
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:53 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Sorry to hear of all your troubles, particularly hard to bear when you are just starting a new venture. I would consider having both cow and heifer tested for Neospora, BVD IBR and Leptospirosiss before you put either of them away - even if you are going to cull the heifer it may be of use to know her results if you are keeping her mother.
Duncan
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:37 am
by Sylvia
I was talking with someone about cattle yesterday concerning the helpfulness of giving boluses with regard to TB testing, but iodine deficiency came up as something that had troubled her herd. She uses All Trace with Iodine boluses for her Welsh Blacks. Duncan, would you mind giving us your views on these for Dexters.
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:33 am
by Broomcroft
We had a short run of dead calves which the vet thought just might be iodine defiency, and he advised boluses and that was end of the problem. It works quite quickly and we gave them to fairly pregnant cows and not to pregnant ones.
If you have a test showing low levels of iodine and your vet is saying give boluses then surely, give boluses.
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:29 am
by Duncan MacIntyre
I find trace element and mineral problems can be difficult to get to grips with. A lot depends on your soil, what you put on it in the way of fertiliser, and what you are feeding. The interactions can all be very complicated. With iodine I also find it difficult to get lab results, and it can be very expensive to do sufficient testing to feel it is valid. When working with only one or two animals this is probably more difficult to get right. However if iodine has definitely been found to be deficient, I would go for a bolus to correct this. There are quite a number of trace element boluses all making the claim to be better than the other of course. Your own vet will possibly know what is being used successfully in your area. Beware of bolus size if doing young stock, dexters are as we know relatively small, and large boluses will not go down small necks. Boluses have the advantage over buckets and licks in that each animal gets its supply, whereas some animals just will not take any from licks. The theory that cattle will know what they are lacking and help themselves in in my experience nonsense.
Duncan
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:55 pm
by Issy
Don't take it personaly Di I think bad luck is a newbie thing that gets less with experience ??? .
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:18 am
by Sylvia
As long as you remember that 'experience' takes so long to acquire that by the time you get it you have probably forgotten half you ever knew anyway.