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Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:07 am
by oliver1921
Just a little story to add to the tale so far:
On saturday morningI was juyst doing my rounds of the cows and realised that a cow who was due to calve early november was with a claf that had been born four days ago and the right mum was 100 yards away. On closer inspection i realised that she had calved but there was no sign of the calf. I eventually found the new born in some rushes, had not been licked but a strong little calf. Mother was not showing any interest in her new calf but was very attached to the other, incidentally we had a problem tagging the other calf due to an over protective mum - she had sent me flying!
With a bit of help we managed to get the two mums and calves together but the newly calved one only had eyes for the other calf. Eventually we decided we needed to split the two pairs up so got them in a pen to shed them.
The 'older' mum during shedding managed to throw me over her back and squash me aginst the fence - could not get up yesterday atall and am now walking like John Wayne - there is only one solution for cattle like this and that is the butchers block. I will keep the Mum away from the bull and leave the calf on. There is no way I would consider selling a cow like this on and I strongly think that anyone doing so should seriosly consider the implications of what they are doing - we have been sold two vicious cows who will be butchered.
Please - if you have a vicious cow cull it rather than sell it - you will probably get more for it anyway and the sooner cows like this are out of the dexter breeding stock the better.
p.s. the good news is the new calf is suckling from the right Mum - had to halter her for the last couple of days but the omens are looking good
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:53 pm
by groubearfarm
I have a number of cows who within the first fews days of calving will be very protective of their babes, but return to their usual selves in three to four weeks. As a general rule I would always be careful to make sure I did not come between any mother and very young calf. When I am tagging and disbudding I am always sure to have a gate between myself and the mother, she should be close to reassure her offspring but I want to be safe. I would call the cow protective rather that vicious. I am usually a very peaceful person but if someone threatened my children, nothing would stop me! I was always brought up to not to totally trust any animal especially if they are being threatened in any way.
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:34 pm
by Sylvia
Whether they are 'vicious, 'protective' or 'playful' or whatever other words you can think of for an animal (or person) that will injure you under certain circumstances my view is that they have no place on my farm. And if I don't want to deal with them I certainly would not sell them on to cause trouble elsewhere. There are plenty of opportunities for accidental damage around large (and small) animals without upping the ante by keeping known awkward customers. The majority of cows, I think, know the difference between protecting their calf from a dangerous situation and allowing their known and non-threatening keeper to handle their calf. The minority who fail to make this distinction are not worth bothering with.
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:39 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Working as a vet in general practice I have to deal with a large number of cows before, during and after calving. I don't think the Dexter breed is any different from others in regard to temperament changes at calving - every breed has individuals which show a change, some as has been said are "protective", and I usually assess each one as I approach her. Often I can detect that there is about to be trouble before the farmer, and sometimes they do not believe me until it happens. Most of these cows will be better with someone they know than a total stranger. The presence of the calf is obiviously a factor but sometimes they will be dangerous even though they are separated from the calf - I well remember going to cleanse a dairy cow, left alone for me in the collecting area, I just had to move her into a race. She had me down three times before I could escape from an open area with plenty of room. She had been calved for 3 days. I had a Holstein heifer this year which took an hour and a half to examine to see if she was in diffiulty calving - she was ok and we left her charging at the gate of the pen as we made our getaway.
The main things to remember are:-
Dexters are much the same as any breed with regard to basic instincts.
ANY cow may show a degree of temperament change and protectivenes around calving.
Very occasionally the change is so great that the cow is seriously dangerous.
These changes usually only last a short time and are slight. In extreme cases you may need to cull the cow, but that should be rare. It could be that there is a family relationship in this so if you own only one or two cows but they are related then if one is difficult the others may tend to be as well, giving a bad impression of the breed as a whole.
Duncan
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:57 pm
by Sylvia
I hope you will agree, Duncan, that you are in the one profession which is likely to see animals at their very worst. Ironic really because I expect most vets become vets because of a real fondness for animals and not for the money or hours. So your assessment of what you meet during your rounds is surely different to what you would expect to deal with in your own herd?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:35 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Yes Sylvia, I have never been the slightest scared of any of my own cows around calving, but having seen others at their worst I am always watchful. The real point I wanted to make is that a degree of aggressive behaviour around calving can occur in any breed of cattle and the Dexter is not in any way worse than others. Beef animals are often thought of as more likely to cause trouble but I think that is just because they are not so used to handling. I deliberately mentioned the dairy beasts because they can take you so much more by surprise as they are expected to be quiet and easily handled. The two I mentioned were two of the scariest cattle I have ever had the misfortune to meet.
Whilst we should not be afraid of our cattle, we should always remember that in certain situations things may change suddely and a cow in aggressive mode is easily as dangerous as any bull. It is always adviseable to assess the situation before you are in a corner with no escape
Duncan
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:19 pm
by Saffy
I hope you don't mind me referring to the friesian herd I once had.
They were mostly very a placid lot and it was one of the things we bred for and they were mostly Ok at calving although I was always particularly wary.
However one year all the heifers about 25 were by a bull called Cubridge Critic 4th about 25 of them. When the first few calved they gave me a bit of a fright. Bawling crazily, drooling, eyes bulging, spinning around, acting completely mad. In fact it wasn't until 4 or 5 had calved that I could see that they were simply all doing just that "acting completely mad", they were fine, it was thier way of becoming Mums for the first time. They were quieter 2nd time around and by 3rd just like everyone else but they had me going for a bit!
We did have a dangerous one once - not for long and a charolais cross suckler cow that was so angry that we weren't sure how we would get her on a lorry safely, she had demolished several gates and a cattle crush on testing day, so our vet had fun!!!. Yet on the day she went she was in quite a calm mood and it was all OK. Honestly if we had put her in a field with a footpath...... :D
Stephanie
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:33 am
by Sylvia
"Whilst we should not be afraid of our cattle, we should always remember that in certain situations things may change suddely and a cow in aggressive mode is easily as dangerous as any bull. It is always adviseable to assess the situation before you are in a corner with no escape"
Having had my leg broken (11 days in hospital and a bone graft) about 10 years ago because of the actions of an alpaca (that most gentle and easily handled of animals) who flipped over when I went to put a halter on him, which I had done uneventfully many times before, I would absolutely agree with the above comments and go further. Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones so it is up to us to take a great deal of care when dealing with even the most docile of animals. Dexters may be small cows but they are still significantly stronger than their owners.
???
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:37 am
by Woodmagic
Oliver, it does seem to me that as far as the cow was concerned you were a real danger to her calf, you were trying to separate her. She was under the delusion that it was her calf, and nature told her she was essential for the calf’s survival. I wouldn’t recommend keeping a cow that was really vicious, but would want to know rather more in this instance. Was it a home bred animal that should have been prepared to trust you? Did you take her too much for granted? They had presumably already been quarrelling over the ownership by the time you were on the scene, so you already had a very upset pair. Dairy animals can be far too careless over mothering and don’t do a good job; they may be easier to deal with but can be a dead loss as sucklers. If possible, I like to keep a cow that is imminent away from other fresh calvers, they are sometimes inclined to foster another calf at this point.
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:13 pm
by happy hollidays
My cow Lilly has the largest voice I have ever heard if you are in a filed that she wants to be in, or the tractor is going and she is not near it, if she is hungry, thirsty and so on. I could perceive that to be threatening but she is moaning and harmless. However comfortable I feel with my animals I never drop my guard because they are animals and don't communicate as clearly with me as each other and frightened animals can behave irrationally. From my own experience and personality I do not like to argue and certainly wouldn't start a fight, but even today if you went to hurt my child I would rip your head off with no second thoughts whatsoever. Hormones and instinct are very powerful at birth and things need a while to go back to normal, there must be similarities with animals too. I would give her a chance to settle and to regain your trust. Next time you may wish to handle her differently because of this experience, I hope she doesn't step out of line again, especially if she is usualy one of the better behaved ones.