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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:31 am
by Kathy Millar
I have a small herd of 3 cows. two heifers and 3 calves. One of the cows started limping (rear hip) so I moved her and her calf into an adjacent field. The cow was happy not to have anyone shoving her around but her calf really missed one of the bull calves who would sleep next to her on the other side of the fence. After about 2 weeks, she wasn't limping so I put one of the heifers in with her for company and to see how they would get along before reintroducing her to the herd. NOT! They immediately started shoving each other and the heifer kept trying to suck the udder of the cow. So I separated them and then after a few days, put the cow and calf back in with the herd whereby the other heifer began fighting with her and also started nursing off her (these heifers are 15 plus months old!!). So I separated them again (I'm getting tired and it's hot out!) and put in her grandmother and calf and this time no fighting. After AI'ing the two, grandmother is back out and just fine with the herd but now I am left with an outcast. I don't dare let them just "duke it out" as they have all, but one, been AI'd and I understand that boxing would not be a healthy occupation for them. Any ideas on how to reintergrate this cast off?? 
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:45 am
by Martin
Hi Kathy,
I have a red cow that is at the bottom of the pecking order and everyone seems to pick on her at one time or another, especially if they have been seperated for any length of time or when having to feed in the field. She is rather timid even young heifers seem to get the better of her. But they do settle down after a while when everyone knows their place in the rankings. She does seem to have a couple of the cows that she can spend some time with and I am going to keep her most recent calf to enable her to have a good friend in the herd. I know that it can seem that the bullies are relentless the way they keep on and on, but that is the way of the animal world, it will eventually slow down to an acceptable level.
Martin.
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:14 am
by Jo Kemp
Who is top-dog? IF it is the old cow then your outcast isn't a threat to the old girl's status and they will get on OK. However, with the heifers - she should be above them and they are trying to make sure they are above her. She then fights back. If the heifers are suckling from her there is a metal nose thing which is very uncomfy for cow and she would not let them suckle ... depends on why they are suckling! I have never had that particular problem!
Like the others, I don't believe she is an outcast, simply trying to sort out her position.
I have a Dexter/DexterXBB heifer and a smaller pure bred cow. They had a fight which lasted ages... I was on the sidelines shouting at them when there was a bit of a pause but no notice was taken .... evenually the cow won! Suddenly the younger, bigger animal was being pushed and she gave up. Your cow will give up OR the heifer will (hope it's the heifer!) When my old foundation cows were top dog & second in command we had a massive fight! I had not realised that having a bull from one of them would increase her status ... she stood her ground and fought .. and won. Confidence is everything! Now neither is boss so they just greet each other.
Good luck
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:02 pm
by Woodmagic
There was a time when I used to shake my head, and say regretfully that the Dexter’s one real fault was their aggression to other bovines. One day, talking to a very experienced beekeeper, he told me that docile bees are not much good to him, that the aggression is linked with their working and survival capabilities. It made me see my cows in a new light.
It can be a pain when one wants to introduce animals that have been parted for a while, running them side by side with a fence in between is a good first step, if it is feasible.
I try to keep them apart, if they are close to calving, otherwise I leave them to sort out the pecking order, which they will do eventually. You need to ensure, if they are feeding competitively, that one isn’t losing out
Once they have calved, I introduce them, keeping the calves out of the way, until they have done with their wrestling, otherwise a calf that isn’t ‘street wise’ could get hurt in the rough and tumble. Put a Dexter in with a bunch of bigger cattle, and watch the advantage to the Dexter, size doesn’t come into it.
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:45 pm
by oliver1921
Ours always mess about for 24 hours or so when mixed up or re-introduced but let them find their pecking order themselves. The only reason that she is letting the heifers suckle must be because she has two much milk and is possibl;y uncomfortable - i am sure she will kick them off when she wants to.
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:44 am
by wagra dexters
Has anyone seen 'The Fighting Queens'? It is a short documentary on the L'Herens, showing the cattle, much like the Dexter, when they are first let out onto the higher slopes in Switzerland each year. Thank heavens ours are on relatively flat country, is all I can say.
That going for the udder business must be something they do when they are re-establishing pecking order. We put two fresh mums back into the herd, after only a week to 10 days out, and you would swear they were new to the mob. It was just the bottom few trying it out to see if they could climb up the ranks a rung or two. They fought until they were exhausted.
We never mix the horned mob with the dehorned mob, for the sake of equal playing field. I messed up one heifer, so she has a regrowth horn stub, and smallest though she is, she often uses it to her advantage.
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:06 am
by Kathy Millar
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. I'm not always sure what is "normal" behaviour :p The reason why I didn't want to let them duke it out is that they are all newly AI'd and I understand that could cause problems. So when would it be "safe" to let them fight it out? She is presently in an adjacent paddock (and loves having her own personal feeding spot!). It was the other two heifers that were challenging her and I think she is a bit timid of the larger heifer. Good mom though, I had wanted to keep her.
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:18 am
by PeterO
Woodmagic wrote: Put a Dexter in with a bunch of bigger cattle, and watch the advantage to the Dexter, size doesn’t come into it.
Too true - in my mixed herd of Dexters and Murray Greys (500-600 kgs) the Dexters firmly rule the roost.
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:32 am
by Inger
I find that if the heifers grow up together, they can fight out which one is dominant before they get old enough to cause each other damage. Our animals are polled or dehorned though. Once they are ready to go to the bull, they go as a group and join the adult herd as a group. The adults all tend to let the heifers know that they must wait for the hay being fed out, as the adults demand to get first choice of the hay. Especially the dominant cow. I intend to keep the same cow as herd leader (while others get sold as I grade up), because then there is no arguement from the younger cows coming along. Plus she knows the walking routes to get to the paddocks and were the troughs and best grazing is, so the rest of the herd follow her. As she is only 5 years old, so she's got plenty of years of leadership service to give me yet. :laugh: She also calves the easiest of any cow of seen. An added bonus. :D
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:37 am
by wagra dexters
Kathy, fighting does not seem to cause loss of embryo, as any returns we have had could just as easily be out of a non-fighter. If you are still worried, make sure they have only the one fence between them, so they can have neighbourly chats, then later try putting the bossy cow in with the timid cow, rather than vice-versa.
A good old bull does add the advantage of keeping the peace between cows, or so goes my experience anyway. Have others found the same?
Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:45 pm
by Penny
I quite agree about a good old bull keeping the peace. A whille ago, I had 2 cows that were scrapping a bit whilst my bull was lying down in the sunshine. He got up, moaning and groaning to himself, walked between the 2 cows, and that was it! End of fight, and he lay down again. The cows went off in different directions and did not resume the fight.
Wonderful.
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:17 am
by Broomcroft
My bull's the same. Just looks at them and that's the end of the problem. Maybe a younger bull wouldn't have the same effect, don't know. Only ever seen him take things further once when he pushed a stroppy cow into a 15' cattle gate and bent it like a banana. Brand new gate of course! The cow was fine.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:05 pm
by Jo Kemp
The only time I have noticed my bull sorting out another was when he was side by side with his young son..against the electric fence. Youngster very subdued!
Wonder if I have already told you this.... mind's going
Jo
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:08 pm
by Kathy Millar
Well, the two older cows are going in November to a new home and as the herd will then be "upset" and sorting out a new pecking order, I may put her in then. In the meant time they do share a fence line but that didn't seem to make any difference.