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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:25 am
by kenseypark
Hi, i wonder if anyone can explain something to me please, i think i've answered my own question but here goes. We've only kept cattle for the last 5 years and only have a few so still quite 'new' to it. However, we've been reasonably sucessful with calving/AI etc. We have our own dexter bull which runs with a couple of them but one of them is his full sister so had her AI'd last year, no problem, calf born in May, had her AI'd 9/08/07 so waited 21 days to see if came back bulling and no, went past her date. Then last night i found her bulling??? The cow 'jumping' on her is in calf, and she did just stand there. Does this mean she's not taken, or absorbed?? What are peoples thoughts (please don't shout at me for asking the question) about going to the bull (her full brother)
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:14 pm
by Saffy
I believe that if the cow underneath stands still she is bulling. If she runs off the one on top is bulling. That was my rule of thumb with my milking herd and my results were good.
Of course they can both be Bulling!
Stephanie
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:25 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Time wise this is 34 days from first service, not a multiple of 21 or near it, so it is unlikley that she has not conceived and now gone through two cycles. It is probably more likely that she has conceived but there has been early loss of the embryo for some reason. This is not as infrequent as you might think. It might be better to have her scanned ultrasound to see if there is an embryo there, or if your vet does only manual pd's ask what the earliest sthey would do a pd. AI can do damage if the cow is still in calf, so if you are dosubtful best not to use AI. If you were running out of time to get her back in calf I would use a close related bull if it avoided her having a years holiday, but if there is no rush get her checked out by vet or scanner and use AI again if she is not in calf. A small proportion of cows will show signs of heat even when they are pregnant.
Duncan
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:36 pm
by kenseypark
Thank you Duncan. I had my suspicions that it was probably that. Would using my bull (her full brother) encourage abnormalities to the offspring?? Is it a mating that would happen in the wild? I suppose it makes sense to stretch out calving and then that would make different times for the stock to 'go off' when ready, rather than all at once.
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:06 pm
by Woodmagic
If you look up the topic 'Inbreeding Dec 18th 2006' you will find a useful discussion, which should help you to make up your mind
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:23 am
by wagra dexters
That happens quite a bit at about 35 days, and only becomes more obvious when using AI on a bigger mob.
I don't know how scientific, but the theory is that for some reason the embryo doesn't 'attach'.
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:04 pm
by Kathy Millar
I'm finding that sorting out 5 cows/heifers for heat is just awful; jumping and yelling but not being sure who is in heat (I AI all). So I separated two (one was actually already alone) and this helped as well as my records of standing heats previously. I managed to get 4 done but the 5th has not shown heat for almost a month and wouldn't you know it, she has to be done or no sale! Please don't suggest a bull, the logistics for that are too complicated. And she has never failed me. I guess the only other option would be an injection and I don't fully understand how to use that method.
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:48 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
You could use some means of "oestrus synchronisation2 if the term is allowable for only one cow!! I usually use prostaglandin injections, two given 11-13 days apart, inseminate 72-76 hours after 2nd inj or when seen on. "Prid" and various other things are available, prid and CIDR devices being placed in vagina and removed after the requisite number of days. In UK most of these are restricted to vet use, don't know how you stand over there. Also essential to check for pregnancy before using prostaglandin, but presumably you know she is not. No neigbours bulls or bull calves etc?
Duncan
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:48 am
by Inger
If you have only 1 cow remaining to get in-calf (possibly), I would use her brother. He will be able to tell if she is definately in-heat or not. If the cow becomes pregnant by him, you can always eat the offspring. Then again, it may be a really nice looking heifer calf that you would like to keep. Either way, one back-cross isn't going to cause major deformaties - unless both animals are carriers of Chondrodysplasia. In which case, you can't use him.