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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:07 am
by justmalc
I have two short black heifers, both in calf, advertised on this site for £375 each. (Multuminparvo Polly and Multuminparvo Poppy). Unfortunately I have received no enquiries.
I have this week birth notified my first heifer. I believe that we should be butchering far more heifers both to protect the quality of the breed and to re-balance the market which now has heifers being worth more as beef than as breeding animals.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:03 am
by Broomcroft
Presumably there must be some sort of barrier preventing people from making beef from heifers. Either they don't know what to do, can't stand the thought of butchering their pet, or the animal is so small they don't think it's worth it.
I would much rather have an animal humanely slaughtered at an abattoir I know, than to sell to an unkown person.
I had a call just this morning from someone wanting to pay about £200. Why do that I said when I can sell the carcass for £1200 retail? He wanted them as pets for the children, probably to be shut inside it sounded like, as he didn't have much grass. Much better off as beef in my view.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:21 am
by Penny
I share Clive's view. It is not just that my heifers are worth more as beef to me, it is the sad fact that Dexters can have many homes in their lives, some good, some not so good, as people go in and out of smallholding.
I would prefer to know that my animals have had a good life from beginning to end, so am beefing heifers that would make fine breeding stock. Other good breeders are doing the same due to the current slowness of sales.
However, some heifers and a lot of short-legged stock are not necessarily good( financially) to be beefed either, unless you are fortunate to have your own cutting plant, as the slaughter and butchery costs are prohibitive for the amount of meat.
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:38 pm
by Rob R
Penny wrote:I share Clive's view. It is not just that my heifers are worth more as beef to me, it is the sad fact that Dexters can have many homes in their lives, some good, some not so good, as people go in and out of smallholding.
I would prefer to know that my animals have had a good life from beginning to end, so am beefing heifers that would make fine breeding stock. Other good breeders are doing the same due to the current slowness of sales.
It's the same as with the pigs, I had an enquiry the other day about two pedigree Saddleback gilts that would make nice breeders. I think I put him off with a price of £150 each, yet wholesale meat price would almost yield the same, and retail far exceeds it.
With the Dexters I've kept or killed all but one heifer, who has gone to a smallholder who wanted just enough beef to fill his freezer for each year, but I've maintained first refusal if she moves on.
I think the Society doesn't help when people are encouraged to register within 30 days- I'd much favour a system like the BPA where a BN animal can be registered, for the same cost, at breeding age. £100 over twelve months is ridiculous if the animal will only sell for £200, so people are bound to register everything & decide later. Then when it has a green card I think many people are reluctant to slaughter them as they've spent 24 - 30 months thinking of it as a breeder, psychology plays a powerful role.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:26 am
by Martin
I have for some time been advocating the heifer for meat theme. Yes there are far too many cattle for sale and I believe it is because too many owners believe that all heifers are meant to be for breeding. I have two really nice non short heifers born in March of last year but as my breeding herd is as big as I want at the moment they will both be in the freezer before the end of the year. I agree with Clive, why accept a smaller return just because the animal is female.
If more people butchered heifers then the price of breeding stock would rise. Too many poorer types are being kept which cannot be good for the breed, maybe we need to consider inspections of all animals considered for use in the breeding herd.
Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:53 am
by Louisa Gidney
Martin, I really don't think inspection of all animals is the answer. It will merely increase the number of people who enjoy keeping the cattle but find the paperwork a major disincentive, and so will not register stock, and aggravate the larger, commercial herdowner v. smallholder/hobby farmer divide.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:07 pm
by Rob R
Louisa Gidney wrote:Martin, I really don't think inspection of all animals is the answer. It will merely increase the number of people who enjoy keeping the cattle but find the paperwork a major disincentive, and so will not register stock, and aggravate the larger, commercial herdowner v. smallholder/hobby farmer divide.
Agree. Don't want to discourage people from keeping heifers, we're much better off starting to stop encouraging them to register so early.
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:49 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Perhaps one of the problems is the number of people willing to sell heifers for less than they are worth to kill. If more were willing to be realistic about cattle keeping and kill extra heifers rather than give them away then there would be fewer extra ones, there might be some selection of females for breeding, and average prices would rise. In a way this may be an unavoidable situation for a breed with so many owners who do not keep them for traditional farming reasons, but there is no reason why the more commercially minded cannot adopt a more ruthless approach to extra heifers rather than jumping on the bandwaggon and selling them for washers.
I have been pointing out from time to time that the increase in numbers gave a much needed chance for selection of females for more than 10 years.
Duncan
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:57 pm
by Broomcroft
I've only been keeping Dexters for 4 years and in that time I've had just two bulls. The first, a medium sized, stocky short and my current "medium" legged non-short, moderately big chap. The first short bull usually (but not always) produced small heifers and large steers. My current medium leg produces, every time bar one out of 30, heifers and steers where the heifers are only just a tiny bit smaller that the males, and both males and females are just a reasonable size.
So the heifers from the first bull are a problem, beef-wise, the heifers from the second bull are not a problem. And even though the biggest steers are not as big as those from the first bull, I am happier overall.
Is that normal / usual? Can the selection of a bull that produces such offspring help with the heifers "problems", or is there another problem lurking in the dark by taking this route?
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:58 pm
by Rob & Alison Kirk
Rob and I have been slaughtering short and non-short heifers for some time to keep up with demand for beef, having this year increased our cow numbers using five home-bred heifers. We have two pub/restaurant customers who do not want huge amounts of beef, taking about 1/2, so these have the smaller Dexters, so that we don't have too much in the freezer, which we eventually sell to private customers.
We register all our heifers within 30 days (now on-line for £10, instead of £12), occasionally just 'birth notifying' a heifer for whatever reason. We may need them for replacements or perhaps to sell a quality (short leg) heifer at 10 months for £500-£525, no less. That type of quality heifer we would probably keep as a replacement for ourselves if necessary and not slaughter.
Perhaps there are too many heifers for sale to a saturated market. My own view is that with all the regulations/TB testing/getting bulls to cows, etc, many people who are just breeding for pleasure will decide to 'throw in the towel.' Who could blame them.
Dexter beef will sell itself, but breeders need to get out there, visit chefs and have confidence in what they're selling. Read your local newspaper - see which hotel/restaurant has a story about a new Head Chef, who is looking for local produce with consistency and tracability.
If there are too many breeding heifers for sale, seriously consider slaughtering for beef. Dexter beef is for sale to a niche market, aim high, and you will get a decent return for your beef.
Okay, a short leg heifer isn't going to bring in as good a return as a non-short steer, but you've satisfied your customer and they'll come back for more - guaranteed.
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:38 am
by Martin
No way would I want inspections for heifers, I was doing my usual thing of being devils advocate.
There is a problem at the moment as most of us realise, I was just trying to stimulate debate about the issue. My own belief is that more heifers need to go into the food chain. If more where available in my area I would certainly be buying them in at some of the prices advertised as there is money to be made out of them.
Martin
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:48 pm
by Woodmagic
Clive you are negotiating treacherous ground. I would argue that if you use a ‘short leg’ bull, on average 50% of his calves will pick up the gene and be smaller, although visually they will also tend to look beefier, because of the skeleton reduction, I am assuming the dam is non-short.
Because of the dud gene, the skeleton will almost finish growing at two, and all food will go into carcase production giving an over fat animal if you carry it on too long. If you use a non-short bull the calves will certainly be more uniform. There are still buyers who will pay a premium for a short leg heifer, but I am finding more folks are not interested, probably because television has given the average buyer a much better idea of the genetics, there are still some, otherwise ‘white Dexters’ would not find a sale.
What does worry me is the criteria for the ‘second rate heifer’, it used to be the non-short, and I wonder if some more retrenched breeders are still thinking along those lines. I am not interested in the lanky animal carrying no beef, but the slightly leggy animal put to the right bull is capable of breeding a small compact animal which suffers none of the penalties of the traditional ‘short leg, and will reproduce itself every time.
Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:32 pm
by Kathy Millar
The market for breeding heifers is slow here too and I noticed earlier this year someone "dumping" their small herd of 4 (unregistered) Dexter cows for cheap. They didn't sell! It turned out to be a friend of mine who had run out of pasture. He found more pasture and so far is keeping the herd. He bought two heifers very cheap from another friend and had a cow/calf given to him from yet anoither friend. Not much incentive to keep the prices up.
Many people will sell to anyone with the money. I'd like to sell my animals to as good a home as possible. Another friend up Island sells at a good price and reserves right of first refusal if the new owners decide to get rid of the aniaml she sold to them.
I am beefing a 6 year old cow in the fall as well as another first time calver if the pending sale falls through. Thats why I won't get into breeding alpacas. You should see all the animals being dumped now that people have built up their herds and can't sell the excess animals or eat them!
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:47 am
by PeterO
Kathy Millar wrote:Kathy
I am beefing a 6 year old cow in the fall as well as another first time calver if the pending sale falls through. Thats why I won't get into breeding alpacas. You should see all the animals being dumped now that people have built up their herds and can't sell the excess animals or eat them!
Kathy - I am looking at beefing a 7 year old cow and a 3 year old (heifer!) this year - do you find much deterioration in meat quality in the older animals.
Peter
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:57 am
by wagra dexters
Recently we had cause to have a heifer slaughtered at 18.5 months, and were astounded by the meat quality and flavour. Within the week, a local man lent us a copy of an American butchering book, so I could study the cuts.
The book stated that steer meat is better than heifer meat, but that heifer meat at 30 to 150 days gestation is by far better than either. I don't know how I feel about that, have yet to come to terms with the concept, but it would explain why the heifer in case was so much better than expected.