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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:24 pm
by Broomcroft
I try to keep to hay/haylage over winter, but we didn't do quite so well last year even though the haylage tests were similar to the previous batch. So I am going to do a bit of supplemental feeding, probably.
What can you recommend? It'll be mainly for steers to be finished and/or just kept in condition.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:32 pm
by ann
Hi clive
what age are you trying to finish at?
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:38 pm
by Martin
Hi Clive,
your local merchant should have a couple of diets to suit whatever you want to achieve. they will do both a growing ration and a finisher. I prefer to feed a 'course' ration that is rolled or micronised ingredients, and although it will contain a few 'nuts' or 'rolls' (which will be a protein) it will not contain many of the things that you would not want as they cannot hide it as easily as in a milled product.
I've also found that in the processed product there will be a taste difference at times which tends to stop a few of the shy feeders for a couple of days.This happens because ingredients change as cheaper ones become available. If possible keep to the more traditional 'course mix' would be my advice.
Martin, Medway Valley Dexters, Kent.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:45 pm
by Broomcroft
Cheers Martin.
Ann - Finishing at around 21-23 months for short chubby chaps and 25-28 months for taller ones.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:41 pm
by Rob R
We aim to finish before Christmas or after a month of Spring grass, don't see the point of struggling kill out of season, but then our strategy is completely geared towards highest quality from lowest cost & feeding as close to nature as possible, and as far as I've found, that is what's 'best'.
We changed over from feeding concentrates (barley & MSBF pellets) to the sheep last winter too and they came out of winter in better condition than the same time last year! They had just a grass reserve & some silage if they needed it, they hardly touched the silage though. We bring the cattle in though & store them on hay and silage over winter, as the ground is far too low lying, wet & heavy to stand them all winter.
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:08 pm
by Penny
Hi Clive,
it would be extremely useful if an efficient chap like yourself kept a record of comparitive costs if you do decide to go down the supplementary feeding route next winter.
Info that I would like to know, given that you already get good weights on your steers with your own haylage, is:
1) How much earlier did the steers finish?
2) Did the cost of feed get balanced by increased beef return i.e butchered meat, not deadweight that could have a lot of fat coverage?
3) Any difference in the taste/quality of the beef
In other words, was it financially worth your while.
I look forward to your answer this time next year!
Penny
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:24 pm
by Broomcroft
Will do Penny.
I think I may have just been unlucky in that I was landed with 5 steers by one particular bull (not mine) that just didn't want to finish over the winter. Too narrow/skinny in the back end. They have blossomed now they are out, and are looking quite good. But I had to decline orders to get them there! I don't like doing that but it's better than supplying sub-standard beef.
I grass/hay finish only, as you know. I am looking at other forage options for the winter now, and I've learned masses about silage/haylage over the past few weeks and the answer I seek may be just in the way the the forage is made and with what equipment.
I said I finish at certain ages, but now I've got them out on grass and a little too much clover, I've got 14 month old steers that look ready! Maybe we should eat summer produced beef only.
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:55 pm
by ann
I've come to the conclusion that the non shorts just need that extra time on grass to finish well around the 28mths, the short legged ones always finish quicker, and I do like mine to be butchered fairly soon after they have come in of grass, if they haven't gone earlier. I have never supplemented my steers, but I do give calves rolled barley and molasses at weaning time as I find this stops them going back and also as the steer calves do not get handled, it tames them down. I would also be interested in how you get on if you supplement your older ones. We have a butcher who puts some dexter through his shop that he finishes his self and he is very against forcing dexters. I am lucky in the fact that I can get mine killed up to thirty months, however this is putting the price up slightly. life is never simple, but at least I have bulls that put good back ends on my steers, so thats a plus. 
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:39 am
by Rob & Alison Kirk
Last year we were invited to a meeting on Suckler Herd Management with ADAS. Finishing for beef was discussed - commercial breeds would need concentrates to finish, but NOT the native breeds. The Dexter is an excellent convertor of feed and if fed concentrates will easily get overfat.
Is it worth purchasing concentrates to put on a few extra kilo's? It may be a good idea if anyone is considering feeding concentrates to visit an abattoir which slaughters a number of Dexters from different breeders. There is a difference between the grass finished Dexter (which will have a nice covering of yellow coloured fat) and one which has been fed concentrates (most are carrying too much fat).
You could also have two groups of cattle - one being fed concentrates, the other group finished off grass (you could try this with just two animals). Monitor their growth rates & then visit the abattoir to see the carcasses. You will see a difference.
Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:54 am
by Broomcroft
I was asking more than anything in case someone came up with root crops or something else like that. Alfalfa hay is brilliant for grass fed animals I read somewhere, but I've not seen it in the UK apart from very expensive stuff for horses. Does the job and full of omega-3 etc, better than normal haylage I recall. And someone else I know (a finisher) feeds his traditional breeds on silage made from whole-crop peas.
I think the answer lies in the quality of the silage/haylage. Making it just a little bit early, before seed heads develop to any extent, apparently increases protien by 30% or something like that, and turning it very quickly to wilt so you can bale/wrap it sooner can make another 20% difference and keeps more of the good fatty acids. Wilting kills the good acids but it has to be done or the bales will not ferment properly and you end with butyric acid which taints the meat.
According to Farmers Weekly, taking 3 cuts, all a bit early, instead of 2 big cuts, gives you less per acre per cut, so higher costs, but the haylage has a far better feed value.
The problem is that the weather gets in the way! I wanted to take it early this year, then it started raining for 2 weeks, now the weather's great but I've got slightly too many seed heads! Mowing 1st cut starts today. Forecast looks good.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:01 pm
by ABowden
Hi Clive,
My father's dairy and beef cattle through the winter get fed on a mixture of foods including grass silage, maize silage, whole crop silage, crimped corn, straw, Rape, Soya, and fodder beet.
But you obviously can’t do this small scale. So for my Dexters I have fed them hay/haylage and fed them 2-2.5 beet per head and i have found that the cows tend to have keep their weight and have more milk so their suckling calves do well. In the steers it also helps to put on a doesn’t amount of weight and continue growth through the winter.
The only problem with fodder beet is it can be uneconomical if you have to pull it by hand because there isn’t enough to make it worth getting a harvester in once a month.
If you were looking for a late autumn finishing crop then stubble turnips is another option. The crop can be strip grazed like you would with first grazing. I have not tried this yet but I am considering trying this autumn just to see what affect it has.
Hope this is of help to you Clive.
A Bowden
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:22 am
by Broomcroft
Thanks ABowden.
Beet sounds good. Are they fed whole? Are they cleaned?
I think I can drill stubble turnips with my Opico grass-seeder. But because I was arable and now grass, I still have set-aside in my grass fields...can you believe that bit of bureacracy! So if I seed turnips, I'll do it next year when set-aside rules come to an end.
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:20 pm
by Rob R
Broomcroft wrote:Maybe we should eat summer produced beef only.
That is one thing about the Dexter, a late Spring/early Summer (the correct seasonal time for cattle to be born) mixed herd will produce short cattle that finish on the Spring flush at 24 months, with a steady supply through to the autumn flush for the longs (right up to Christmas for the later ones on well managed grazing- only gives you three or four months without beef). And it's more efficient when you're keeping them in the freezer than inside on corn! (especially when you consider all the extra effort gone into growing & harvesting corn compared to grass).
Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:07 pm
by ABowden
hi clive,
fodder beet can be fed whole and doesn't have to be cleaned providing it is harvested in dry weather.
a bowden