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Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:20 pm
by tim z
I RECENTLY SENT SOME CATTLE PICTURES TO A FRIEND AND SHE SENT ME BACK AN EMAIL QUERYING THEIR COLOUR AND MENTIONING COPPER BOLAS APPEARANCE. HAVE ANY OF AN IDEA OF WHAT THIS IS AND IF SO WHAT THE ANSWER MAY BE ?THANKS TIM Z ???
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 1:52 pm
by Duncan MacIntyre
Hello Tim,
I presume your friend is suggesting that your cattle may be copper deficient. People often suggest this when they see black Dexters with a tinge of red in the coat. Most of the time I think that they are perfectly ok, but copper deficiency can cause fading of the black to a reddish colour especially around the eyes. The colour of red cattle also can become faded. If your cattle have any significant intake of commercial cattle cake then it is unlikely that they will suffer from copper deficiency. If deficiency is causing problems you are likely to be finding that weight gains are poorer than they should be and possibly conception rates are poorer. If that is the case I would think about getting your vet to do some sampling, but the sampling and testing can be an expensive exercise if other things all look ok. Another complication of copper metabolism is that the uptake and use of copper can be interfered with by other elements such as molybdenum, so sometimes animals will be showing signs of copper deficiency when the real problem is actually a degree of molybdenum toxicity. Again unless you are seeing signs of poor performance there is most likely no need to worry.
I presume the "copper bolas" phrase has come from the fact that copper suppliments are often given as a heavy "bolus" which is like a big tablet or capsule which is given by mouth and lies in the reticulum, a small compartment of stomach in front of the rumen. From there they release things like copper slowly so give months of treatment from one dose.
Duncan
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:00 pm
by tim z
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLY DUNCAN,THEY SEEM GENERALLY IN GOOD HEALTH.I DID HAVE A SPARE MINERAL SHEEP/CATTLE LICK WHICH I OPENED AND PUT OUT JUST INCASE ,I PRESUME THIS CAN'T DO ANY HARM ? I DO NOTICE THAT AT DIFFERENT TIMES THAT THEIR COATS DO SEEM TO HAVE A MORE RED TINGE THAN OTHERS AND THEIR COATS ARE LOOSING THE WINTER THICKNESS.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 2:08 pm
by Penny
How do you counteract Molybdenum toxicity? I have tested some of my girls, have found them to be copper deficient, and this has been treated successfully using licks and dressing the fields. However, I know that the Molybdenum levels were quite high here when I last had the land tested. Molybdenum inhibits the uptake of Copper, so both issues need addressing. I cannot find information whether dressing the fields with products such as Grass Trac ( contains a variety of essential minerals) will balance the situation, or if I need to do more.
Personally, I feel there are a lot of copper deficient dexters out there!
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:54 pm
by Broomcroft
Does this help at all?
http://store.mlc.org.uk/article....i=50524
The main cause appears to be not enough going in to cope with what's going out. i.e. not enough input in what they're eating to cope with what they're using up. The article suggests that if someone tells you it's what you said, then take it with a pinch of salt and look at the feeding program (i.e. what's going in). That's how I read it anyway.
Before anyone says " don't you know a lot" and starts asking me complex questions, I don't know what I'm talking about. I just copied it off the web.
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:10 pm
by Sylvia
I doubt whether mineral licks styled cattle/sheep have any copper present. Sheep minerals are no longer allowed to have copper added. So if copper is required it is necessary to check the cattle mineral label and also keep said minerals away from sheep.
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:52 am
by Penny
Thanks Clive,
the soil tests which highlighted the Molybdenun problem were when we moved here, after the previous owner had overgrazed it to extinction with Charollais crosses, the fields were just mud.
I must get them retested as hopefully all our work since being here will have payed dividends, with the fields full of clover and in much better fettle.
I obviously don't know where to look for the right information!
As we don't have sheep on the place, I always ensure that my lick buckets have a good copper content. This area is known to be low in copper, and there fore it is those people who have sheep that will find the boluses most useful. Having said that, most lick buckets are unlikely to cure a copper deficiency, they will just hopefully prevent it increasing further.
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:00 am
by Broomcroft
Because I've got so much grass and especially clover, I put 70 of my cattle on one 17 acre field, so they did't get too much, but now they've got what looks to me like the start of bloat. I intended to have a lot of clover, but the weather last year has meant that the it has grown too much because it's so heat resistant.
Some of the cattle have suddenly, just in a day or two after weeks on the field, bloated out as though they're pregnant, especially on one side. So I've moved that group of 70, into a 3 acre paddock, without clover and poor grass. I'm now going to move them from small paddock to small paddock each day, which they love. It's like a rodeo when I move them and they all go bonkers and think it's great fun.
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:49 am
by Penny
I do always back up with some form of roughage if the clover content is very high at this time of year. They have hay to pick at,it does not have to have much nutritional content. This helps avoid problems.
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 3:51 pm
by Kathy Millar
The sheep minerals here in Canada may or may not have copper and some of the "range" mixes may have quite a bit. My soil test shows that the soils here are deficient in all the micro nutrients (that were tested for) so I want copper in the mineral supplements for both cattle and sheep. Unfortunately, the sheep mineral being offered now has no copper so I have switched to kelp for the sheep and so far they are doing well in it. When I can invent a bomb-proof container to attach to a fence, I will give the cattle kelp too :D
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 1:04 pm
by Inger
We can buy Copper mineral blocks. When our fencer commented on the red tinge in our yearling heifers coats and suggested copper injections, I said a lot of them carry the red colour gene, but just to be on the safe side, put out a copper lick block for them. They got through half a 25kg block in sort order. So I had to conclude that they did indeed need it. I'm a firm believer in animals knowing what they need to eat if they have a mineral shortage.
Funny thing was, I gave the breeding herd a copper block and they hardly touched it. They were grazed on a different part of the farm. Perhaps the soil wasn't as lacking there? The heifers were on a recently broken-in area, which had been ti-tree and gorse previously.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 1:51 pm
by tim z
I HAD THE VET OUT TODAY TO DO THE ANNUAL TB TEST ,SO WHILE SHE WAS THERE I ASKED HER ABOUT THERE COLOUR ETC, SHE RECOMMENDED A COPPER LICK AND SUGGESTED IF I WAS WORRIED ABOUT THE SHEEP GETTING IT TO PUT IT IN THE HAY RACK AND LET THEM LICK IT FROM THERE .HOPEFULLY THIS WILL WORK AND FINGERS CROSSED FOR THE TB RESULTS ON FRIDAY . TIM Z
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:03 am
by Issy
Hoe all goes well with the TB test Timz.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:50 pm
by Broomcroft
The one thing I forgot to mention was that my grass man's guru has told me that chicory is full of trace elements and said I should try putting strips in fields. I am doing this after the first cut next week, rain permitting! Not too much though, just one strip in some fields about 6 metres wide by 100-200 metres long. Too much and they get bloat 'cause they love it to bits.
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:30 pm
by Sylvia
Oh dear all these exciting things people do with their pastures. :p Ours are all old permanent pasture with lots of wild flowers and all we hope for is rain and warmth at the right time to get it growing in the Spring and for cutting for hay and haylage. If a field gets a bit thin it is direct drilled with suitable seed and we put manure and some fertiliser on when fields need it. It seems to work and the animals look well on it. Boring aren't we?