Calves in calf?

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:19 am

Out of the group of calves we bought earlier this year (all born June or July 2003) we have one definitely showing a filling udder and several others with slacker udders than we suspect they should be. All are non-short. Any comments?

Leanne George · Post by **Leanne George** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:20 pm

???Hi Sylvia
I have had a house cow that was in calf at 4 months old and she was put in with bull at 15 months and produced a calf 3 weeks later, she was served when her mother was put back to the bull and so it quite possible that your heifer is in calf so good luck with the birth it will go well

Leanne George ???

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:54 pm

Thanks for the reply Leanne, I take it there weren't any problems with the birth or rearing the babe?

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:13 pm

Update on this:

Calf born 13.06.2004 (according to passport and paperwork) calved by C/S 2 days ago. The heifer calf, large and full term, could not have been delivered normally. Mother and babe OK. Mum mothering her babe and feeding her nicely.

jane · Post by **jane** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:06 pm

Can those of you with more experience than us novices suggest whether it's the breeding bull or bull calves that are the cause of the problem? One of our bull calves, born in early April, trails the bull when he's trailing round after a bulling cow. Presumably if the heifer calf is sexually mature he could be as well?

andy · Post by **andy** » Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:22 pm

Dexters, male and female seem to mature sexually relatively early. Heifer calves running with a mature bull are in double danger, not only of getting in calf but of being injured during the service. A bull will not care if she is under age! Bull calves will also be capable of serving from an early age. If they are with a mature bull they will probably not get a look in as the older animal will prevent them serving the bulling female.

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:37 pm

Thanks, Sylvia, for bringing this up. I, too, have noticed the bull calves following the bull around and wondered if there could be problems. One of my calves is 5 months old so he could presumably "make trouble" with the cows. It sounds like it could be a tricky situation though, if there are 4 month old heifer calves in the herd when the bull is brought in. Do you folks use some rule of thumb like not having a bull in the herd with heifers at that age? That makes breeding in small herds really tricky if a bull is used. What happens in nature then? Doesn't seem to make sense from that point of view. Those of you who run a bull with the herd, what are your experiences?

Kathy, who is always looking for things to worry about!

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:20 pm

What would happen in nature maybe does not really help us with what to do, because cattle have been modified by thousands of years of breeding, and are usually kept on a very good and constant plane of nutrition compared to what their unimproved ancesters would be. This means that it is probably much more common to get heifer calves coming in season and maintaining a pregnancy that their wild ancestors would have.
I tend to agree with those who suggest that the bull calves will not get much chance to do damage if there is a mature bull present but I dont suppose it can be totally ruled out. The small groups which many Dexters are kept in may make it easier for the bull to dominate the bull calves, but that is just a guess on my part.
It is difficult not to have a heifer calf in with a bull over the age of 4 months unless cows always settle quickly - so far I have been lucky and not had any in calf at very early age.
I try to separate cows with heifer calves once I feel happy they are in calf, but sometimes I have had heifer calves over 6 months with a bull and have got away with it.

Duncan

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:34 am

Kathy,
I do not run any entire males with the heifers... that means no bull and no bull calves... as soon as any bull calves (in with the heifers or out in the paddocks with their mothers) start to show signs of becoming sexually active they are dealt with... sometimes this is as early as 5 months.
I am not sure what I will do once I have PB bull calves that I want to keep entire *shrug* I will probably have to split my calves and keep them with a couple of steers.
I do not tend to leave heifers on their mothers so I do not have to worry about this when I put the bull back in with the herd to serve them... and I do not keep the bull in the herd 24/7 ...I keep them in their bull paddocks/sheds.

all the best ~K~

ann · Post by **ann** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:31 pm

Hi

I try to get my cows with heifers back in calf a.s.a.p. and then seperate them before the heifers are 4mths old, if they return I put the calf in a loose box and put the cow back in with the bull, this way you have no problem getting her back out again once she has been served.

If you calve in the winter months, normally you don't seem to have such a problem as the young heifers rarely seem to cycle in the winter.

Ann