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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:00 am
by Jo Kemp
Hope no one minds, I find it increasingly difficult to follow the 'Dexters & Beef' conversation as it is now so many pages long ... wondered if anyone else did!
Sylvia - interesting that you put 'Rib' as a slow roast - we regard it as the very best joint - everyone would kill for it from each carcase and we cook it quickly, for the minimum time, preferably on the bone the same way as sirloin.
To increase the number of quality joints, I don't have all the sirloin steaks possible and have a joint called 'mid-rib' it is smaller than the rib joint and very popular.
Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:47 pm
by Sylvia
Hello Jo
Good idea to start a new 'string', also a quick look at how many people looked at the 'Dexter and Beef' pages shows how very important the subject is!
I'll have to think about the rib situation. When I was selling someone else's beef (before we had our own) rolled brisket and rolled rib were almost interchangeable, I think. Then we got these rib joints which had a relatively small amount of succulent meat and an awful lot of fat round it, and a bit of bone. This suggested to me that they shouldn't be classed as best simply because of the waste. As you will have gathered I am not an expert on meat cuts, my very first beef came back with no labels on it at all (my fault I forgot to tell them), now I have labels i'm still struggling - you can't win.
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:19 pm
by John C
We are as a family, slowly munching our way through our first dexter.
He was a just under 30 month non short entire bull and is proving to be superb.
If he is A typical of how dexter beef tastes then the breed should almost sell itself.
If things go to plan, then dexter will be the only beef to ever grace our freezer.
Just need some decent pork now. :D
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:39 pm
by Broomcroft
John
Welcome to the converted. It's not a fluke, what you are eating is how it is. As a testimony, I know at least 2 beef farmers who keep commercials for their business, but keep a few dexters for their own consumption.
Clive
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:09 pm
by Jo Kemp
Sylvia - the brisket is usually cooked slowly, pot roasted or is the main ingredient in "Boiled beef & carrots! Boiled beef & carrots..." Is delicious cold with pickles/chutney.
The rib joint is fatty but this is regarded as an advantage as fat increases the flavour. Depending on the condition of the animal, the joint could be overfat though. The first animal I killed was FAR too fat and I am still learning but my customers want too much fat rather than too little.
If there is not enough fat, the carcase cannot hang long enough as the fat preserves it.. I like to hang for at least 3 weeks for a young animal and 4 perhaps 5 for an older (over 36 months) I am feeling hungry already!
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:14 am
by Inger
JohnC, try Devon (Large) Black pigs. They taste REALLY yummy. 
They're a rare breed, but there are still some around. We breed them and find it hard to hang onto enough of the piglets for our own freezer. They're very popular.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:21 pm
by Kathy Millar
Here in Canada we have short ribs and something called rib steaks. The short ribs were quite fatty but tasty and are priced commercially around the same as T-bone steaks, X-rib roast and top round roast. Rib steaks are priced over $3.00/lb. more but I have noticed that if some cut is popular on the barbeque, then it is priced higher! I am finding the names of all these cuts very confusing. For instance, what other cuts can be made with the brisket? I have no brisket cut in my steer.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:27 am
by Jo Kemp
Wonder what everyone thinks of this - traditionally farmers have calved in Spring to catch the rise of the grass but, with the 24 month rule, should we be looking at the finishing end and therefore calving mainly in the Autumn to get a good grass bloom on the meat even in those areas where grass is limited?
Jo - whose cows have decided the dates each year anyway!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:47 am
by Broomcroft
I agree and have been thinking along the same lines. I am planning to have a pampered "finishing field" or two, heavy in clover and really good quality grass. The only problem is we sell a fair bit direct, so freezer size would be an issue, and also at the end of the day, I suppose the market has to be the main driver. So what I am going to do is try to finish out on my finishing fields.
The other interesting point I am learning about grassfed is that, apparently, an animal put onto grass after being inside is re-instated with all the health and flavour benefits in just 25 days. Not my fact by the way, just passing on what I've read on the web somewhere.
If this is true, then it also opens up the time that animal can be slaughtered if indeed grass finished you're after.
Also that hay doesn't detract that much from the animal, but haylage and silage do.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:32 pm
by Jo Kemp
I can understand that silage may be different to hay but haylage, at least MY haylage is simply slightly moist hay, dust free and wrapped as I haven't any shed space!
Anyone any idea how to get the meat tested for all these grand things - omega 3 'good' cholestrol etc?
I was also told (apropos sheep rather than cattle I think) that ANY grain would alter the fat in an animal, regardless of time away from slaughter so lamb starter is a no-no for instance although the animal may not be killed until it is a year old!
What a minefield - who can we all believe?
Jo
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:09 pm
by Broomcroft
Jo
I can't see that haylage, which is what we use as well as hay, would alter things much. But silage does apparently and I have this from various sources. Re the 25 day re-instatement, I'll try and get the article for you that I read somewhere.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:06 am
by Broomcroft
Jo
I got it wrong. The 25 days recovery time relates to milk. The time for beef to recover from being fed grain is longer. Apparently grassfed milk and grassfed cheese are even better than grassfed meat. So we're looking to get our own made.
I've put a link to the article on my farm site. So if you go to broomcroft.com and look at the bottom of the page on benefits of Gras-Fed Beef, you'll see the article link called Grassfed has a far better story to tell than organics CLA researcher says.
Some extracts:
This is a much more exciting story than organic food products have to tell.
Dhiman said feeding an animal hay or wilted silage would decrease the CLA by one-third and green chop by 10%. He said what created CLA was the highly volatile fatty acids in the grass that are quickly lost due to wilting.
Clovers increase CLA content by 30% over straight grass pastures.
He said the CLA is found within the animal’s fat. Breeds that produce high fat content milk and fatten easily on pasture are the breeds needed for high CLA products. [i.e. Dexter's?]
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:39 am
by Martin
You can keep your animals to 30 months before killing so a spring calving herd could give you the meat required all year round. As heafers run to fat earlier, they can be killed from 18 months, ie. after the grazing season, and up until 24 months when steers could be ready from 24 to 30 months. Sounds simple really, but I imagine not as easy in practice.
I intend to use the above as a basis for my small enterprise, maybe I'll have to tweek it a little or be a bit short of meat at certain times of the year. I do not think I will be calving later in the year as I haven't either suitable land to keep animals out in winter or shed space to house cows with calves at foot.
Martin. Medway Valley Dexters
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:01 pm
by Broomcroft
Jo - I missed the question about testing. Yes, I know how, where to get it done and I am going to be doing it on my own beef. If you email me I'll send you full details. clive@broomcroft.com
Martin - Nice idea. Yes, it gets complicated and I think all we can do is get as close to it as possible.
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:32 pm
by Kathy Millar
The fellow that Clive quotes (Dhiman) also said that feeding any grain to cattle would permanently reduce the amount of CLA's in the fat. Stockman Grass Farmer has printed a lot of articles from that researcher. It doesn't seem to be as critical with sheep but I have yet to see any comprehensive testing done along those lines. Does anyone know of any with sheep?