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Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:09 pm
by PeterO
Hi
I have a 16 month old steer that I intend to butcher in the Autumn after the 20 month beef retention period ie at about 22 months old. To my uneducated eye his frame seems a bit small for his age eg still not up to his mothers height though he is not thin. Is this usual ie do Dexters have a late adolescent spurt of growth or have I got a runt. Am I planning on killing him too early? Should I be 'force feeding' him that is beef nuts as well as grass?
Peter O'Brien
Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 10:22 pm
by Mark Bowles
Hi Peter, you fail to say if your steer is short or non-short,it does make a difference.
If it is short,and has plenty of grass in front of it i would expect to kill it at 22 to 24 months with a carcass weight of 330 to 365 kgs.
If it is non-short with plenty of grass in front of it i would take it on to 28 to 30 months and expect a carcass weight of 400 to 430kgs.
The shorts tend to go to fat if you take them on to 28 to 30 months.
My steers see no concentrate at all, haylage and hay is fed twice a day in the winter, its not even ad lib.
I think this is a topic that will create a lot of interest,lets here how other people do it and whay weights they acheive.
Mark
Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:16 am
by PeterO
Mark
Thanks for the reply - the steer is non-short. I was hoping to avoid feeding him through next winter (when I assumed he would tend to 'stand still' if not lose weight).
Peter
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:05 am
by Kathleen
Hi Mark,
I was realy interested to read your comments here... and I have a couple of questions if you can help...?
...I have taken your 'carcass weight' as => hung weight ... that is the body hanging on the hook post slaughter ... sorry if this seems like a realy dumb question but it is just that I can not get over those weights you quoted!
...also would you have any aproximate sizes/heights for those weights (I know I am a pain about heights and I am sorry but it realy is a 'real' question *smile*) It is just that unless we 'feed' our cattle here they never reach any weights like that ...in fact my 48inch longlegs at 36months only dress (hung weight per above) around the 250kg and that is with 8-10 mls of fat (which is good as far as butcher stats go for BT breeds on grass)
...Actually racking my brain ...the bulls I have seen fed for the show ring that are 48 plus inches are ever only 500 to 600 kg live weight ... which would equal 250-300 on the hook!
In fact the more I think on it as I type ...you must be giving live weights??? and this must be a silly question!!!
Bye for now
Kathleen.
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:39 am
by Sylvia
Would it be possible to use 1) liveweight ie what the animals weigh if you put them on the scales just before they leave the farm and 2) deadweight ie what you get paid for or get back to sell as beef please then those of us not too well up on the subject can get a better idea of what we should be aiming for/ might achieve? Thanks.
Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:39 am
by Mark Bowles
Slight cock up, liveweights not hung weights.
On the hook early this year a non-short and short respectively weighed 223kg and 180kg.
In Jan 03 i sold a non-short steer at just short of 20 months that weighed 365kg liveweight, thats coming out of the winter feeding just good hay.
I dont keep stats myself as for convenience we sell nearly finished steers on to people selling Dexter beef.We get £1 per kg liveweight, and they are weighed accurately so there is no guessing or feeling ripped off by either party.
Mark
Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 6:56 pm
by dexter
Peter
As Mark has said the Short legged steers tend to finish alot earlier than the the non-shorts, (usually 22- 24 months) and carcase weights can range from 140 to 180 kgs (not boned out, expect to lose again a third of the body weight). The long legs take longer to finish , usually 26- 28 months, they will be heavier, expect 180- 240 kgs although some get alot heavier if finished using high protein/carbo feeds. If finishing in the winter, hay with complimentary feeds ( beef nuts 14% protein with rolled barley will be ideal, aim for 1.5 kgs or 3 Kgs if wanting to finish earlier). Ideally talk to an experienced Dexter breeder or local beef farmer who keeps traditonal British breeds, not continentals (they can only be finished inside ).
Chris Taylor.
Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 10:28 pm
by Penny
There are many different views about finishing dexter steers (or heifers), with the main point of discussion being diet!
I believe that native breeds do very well on a natural diet of grass and good quality hay/ haylage ( meadow hay is preferred to seed hay by my herd) and will finish at the ages quoted and will produce a good carcass. eg a non short finishing at 24- 26 months reaching at least 200kg deadweight. It is important that the steers are given good pasture and food, not just following on from the cows in pasture and mouldy slilage that you don't want to feed the rest of your stock. Many view the steers as the bottom of the priorities, but they should be pampered if you want top quality beef!
For those that use additional feed during the winter, like Chris, I would love to have any statistics you have regarding the cost of feeding the steers this way. Do you gain enough weight increase in beef to make these additional feed costs worthwhile?
To really set the cat amongst the pigeons, I will also state that the taste of grass reared beef is sweeter, that the general public are increasingly keen to source beef that has been reared "traditionally " on grass and hay, and that beef from grassfed animals is lower in saturated fats that those that have been fed grains/concentrates, and is therefore healthier for you.!!
On a slightly different note, I am currently in discussion with a company regarding developing a dexter pate. If successful, I would be interested to hear form other dexter finishers in Britain who would like an outlet for the liver. I would like to know hat sort of quantities could be available .
Best Wishes to all dexter owners,
Penny Hodgson
Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:53 pm
by Kathleen
Thanks Mark *smile*
Sylvia, here the blokes in the trade (I am thinking of a certain lecture from the manager of a feedlot-slaughter company) say that the 'best' figures are = carcass weight being 50% of the live weight. And bone out ...that is the carcass cut up and made into meat... being 75% of that carcass weight (note that is a carcass being cut up after hanging in the chiller for 3 days). Now those figures are 'beef' figures and a full dairy animal would be much lower... so I was expecting my dexters to be somewhere in between the 'baddest' and 'best' *smile* (and mine are from Jersey base which is always considered the 'worst' of the dairy breeds for making 'meat') but I am getting 50-60% carcass weight from live weight and my bone out is around the 80% when it is hung for only a week... when I hang for the fortnight it comes down to 70-75% because of the waterloss... (these figures come from grade steers which are from G1 to G3)
All the best
Kathleen.
Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 8:22 am
by Sylvia
Thanks for the info, I think it is time to start printing out these answers and making a file. I want to finish on grass and haylage if poss, it just sounds more appropriate if we are trying to produce a seriously special product not just hanging on to the coat tails of the bigger beef breeds and going for as much as possible.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2004 5:07 pm
by Kathy Millar
This is excellent info, I will be printing it out as I now finally have a bull calf. Lots of times my customers want to get an idea of how many pounds they can expect from a side. I base my selling price on "hung weight" so it is always a guess but nice to have some idea as I am new to all of this. I will be finishing on hay and grass in order to differentiate my product and market it as healthier as it won't have had grain.
Kathy
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:32 am
by Rob R
Penny wrote:There are many different views about finishing dexter steers (or heifers), with the main point of discussion being diet!
I believe that native breeds do very well on a natural diet of grass and good quality hay/ haylage ( meadow hay is preferred to seed hay by my herd) and will finish at the ages quoted and will produce a good carcass. eg a non short finishing at 24- 26 months reaching at least 200kg deadweight.
For those that use additional feed during the winter, like Chris, I would love to have any statistics you have regarding the cost of feeding the steers this way. Do you gain enough weight increase in beef to make these additional feed costs worthwhile?
To really set the cat amongst the pigeons, I will also state that the taste of grass reared beef is sweeter, that the general public are increasingly keen to source beef that has been reared "traditionally " on grass and hay, and that beef from grassfed animals is lower in saturated fats that those that have been fed grains/concentrates, and is therefore healthier for you.!!
Best Wishes to all dexter owners,
Penny Hodgson
Reading through the forum, I found Penny's post on steer finishing to be one which I can very much agree with. When I first started keeping Dexters, I didn't have a great deal of grazing, so I kept entire males indoors for finishing (and I heartily disagree with the fallacy that keeping males entire imparts any undesireable taste, although we now castrate beef animals, that is only for management reasons as they now graze with heifers). They were fed on a barley-based ration supplemented with hay. I have no figures calculated, but there certainly didn't seem to be much advantage in feeding concentrates to Dexters, particularly when the cost of feeding is calculated. They convert grass to meat very well, and the Omega 3 research has shown that grass fed beef has keeping, eating & health benefits over cereal based counterparts. I also think it is important to distinguish between those producing 'grass fed' beef and those with 'grass-only fed' beef; as there are many out there in the beef industry claiming grass fed, but still using concentrates.
I would too say that grass feeding produces a better taste, which is my aim in keeping Dexters for beef. I always find it ridiculous how the beef industry is based around confirmation & fat classifications, and no account is taken of taste.
Commercial buyers will buy (and pay more for) anything that is of the 'right' size & shape, the fact that it could taste as bland as Quorn doesn't matter to them- I see no need nor reason to compete with them, as we all know we have a better beef product in the Dexter than 95% of beef sold in the UK.
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:15 am
by DavidPatch
I was given a Heston Blumenthal cookery book for Christmas, and was amazed to read that in his quest for the 'perfect steak' there is a long discussion on the best ways for cattle to be finished. " Grass-fed animals in the USA do not have a good flavour - because of the moisture in the grass. Choose animals that have been grain-fed for the first 26 months, followed by 4 months on a 99% protein feed." Can this be right? He also talks about 'dry-ageing' for up to 12 weeks. Does anyone have any experience of this type of beef production? Obviously he is approaching the subject from a completely different angle than Penny, but as someone who will be looking to finish their first steer this summer, I am somewhat bemused!!
David
Scarborough
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:39 am
by Broomcroft
I've had a broad spectrum of dexters, long, short, small long, tall long, chunky short, and a few miniscule. The ages being quorted are correct of course but they are guide-lines. I have one short, a strange animal, which I have taken to 27 months but all other shorts have gone at 22-24. I err on the side of early rather than late. If I feel a steer is probably ready, he goes.
We feed haylage ad lib to steers, and will very occasionally use a few nuts for very special cases. For example, I've just finished an exceptionally tall steer at 29.9 months with about 3/4 kilo of beef nuts a day. Even then, he was lean (but not skinny) when he went.
If it ain't grass-fed what's the point? That's what dexter is all about. Health and taste. Otherwise go for a bigger beef breed.
Grass-fed naturally, but if it's couch/weed grass, there's nothing in it to speak of. We put all our efforts into the fields, We plough and re-seed. Choosing the right grass from a good company is key. We use Oliver Seeds because their advice is good, but there are many others. A grass that is right for the animal (because some grasses can be like force-feeding to a traditional breed), right for the land and for making haylage or whatever your requirements are.
Most English beef, around by me at least, is grass-fed but grain finished. I do not know how much full-blown grain finishing detracts from the Omega 3 aspect, but I would have thought quite a lot. I would also imagine that a little bit of help with beef nuts in finishing, would not seriously affect either the taste or Omega 3,6,9 levels. But I'm just guessing.
Clive
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:09 am
by Martin
I am at the moment finishing a couple of steers inside, one is short the other not. I am feeding a course ration as they tend to find the beef nuts a little bland and never seem in a hurry to finish them and sometimes even left some in the trough, and I was only feeding about 1kg each split into 2 feeds. Since changing over to the course ration I have had no such problems and although I have increased the feed to 2kg a day they eat it with relish. The reason for feeding is that the non short will have to 'go' with his lifelong pal as he is a pain when change happens and I am sure he will not perform well on his own. I have nothing to graze with him when it comes to turn out which is why I require him to 'go' with his pal. I have nothing to make a comparison with that will remain grass fed only so the exercise is a little blind, but I can already see a difference after only 2 weeks. I am also feeding a rygrass seeds hay which my cows do not seem very keen on and as has been said earlier they do prefer a well made meadow hay. There are a few people that have said about grass fed only, which is great if you can do it, It does not suit everyone or every system that Dexter keepers use. I will always feed in calf heifers as I believe they require some assistance with their growth when expected to calve at 24 months. I think you will find that most animals killed for beef years ago where fed some sort of complimentary feed, so if you do use some type of finishing ration you can always claim to be 'Traditional'.
I have just recieved the details of a bull and cull cow sent last week and where the following,
4 year old bull graded 0+4L dead weight 263.6kg
6 year old cow graded P+5L dead weight 204.4kg
Hope these figures help someone.
Martin