Where dexters lead others follow!

[Rob R]

£30?

[Saffy]

[quote="Mark Bowles"]
"Costs you say..... £30 is the subsidised cost of a minimum herd visit which could include 10 cows, plus you get experienced tips from a professional assessor who is extremely helpful, sorry but that's crazy to say its expensive surely!!"

[Jac]

. Beryl created a unique strain through inbreeding. She also did an awful lot of promotion overseas and was a well known and respected breeder that encompassed 50 years. The Society have given Petrel lots of publicity to promote the LA scheme. It is a shame that Beryl did not live long enough to reap her just rewards but I am glad that she has had you to carry on from her. However, I think you are giving false hope that people can get 'stunning little cows' LA'd and that alone is the cure for all ills.

Beryl had quite a large herd of Dexters and sold between 10 and 20 females of different ages a year, plus young bulls....I only bought a few, I have bought a few more very old ones recently that I hope to perhaps get one calf from. I resent the suggestion that I am basking in her glory Jac, I have always made it abundantly clear in all my literature who bred my cows, how clever she was and how grateful I am to Beryl! Also when Beryl needed help although I lived a very long way away she knew she could ring me and I would be there, I travelled many times to see her in hospital and stayed all day and most of the night the day she died. I liked Beryl very much and we became friends, probably because of our similar attitude to farm animals. AND because I could see how good her cows were, many couldn't.....

Sadly many people who have been breeding cattle for years don't know which cows are the little stunners. We all have to learn, information doesn't come down out of the sky and not much is free.

What can you get for £30 these days? It is amazing value that you can get an assessor - not just to visit for that but to actually assess up to 10 cows and educate whoever happens to be there about how to LA at the same time. What if it was a vet that was to be asked to visit or a plumber or electrician, all these people charge a visiting fee - just to turn up and then want to be paid for the job on top. Come to that half a tank of fuel....£30!

Stephanie

No you are quite wrong, the point I was trying to make was the same as Rob's. We cannot demonstrate that it is the linear scoring itself that has increased the price. You have to take Beryl's breeding, influence and publicity into account. Also the 'old master' theory - more valuable when they are dead. If you want to be scientific. Everyone who breeds Dexters starts with someone elses stock. That is the way it is. You may choose one where much of the work has been done but don't take that the wrong way either. You may choose another route it is up to the individual. All I am saying is that LA is a spanner in a toolbox it cannot be used alone.

[Jac]

Sadly many people who have been breeding cattle for years don't know which cows are the little stunners

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. Maybe that is the case they have produced a stunner by luck but they may never do it again.

[Rob R]

"Costs you say..... £30 is the subsidised cost of a minimum herd visit which could include 10 cows, plus you get experienced tips from a professional assessor who is extremely helpful, sorry but that's crazy to say its expensive surely!!"

I think we've stumbled upon the first problem - I came fresh from the DCS page on Linear Assessment to read your post.

[Saffy]

We cannot demonstrate that it is the linear scoring itself that has increased the price. You have to take Beryl's breeding, influence and publicity into account. Also the 'old master' theory - more valuable when they are dead.

I totally understand what you are saying but...

Sadly I only got about half as much for Dexters I sold pre selling a calf using a high LA score from her Dam, my dear friend Beryl had already been dead for many years, the only change had been the LA, simple as that.

However I shan't be selling more for a long time because I had kept pretty much no followers and only put that daughter of Petrel up for sale as an experiment - just to see what would happen if I was cheeky enough to ask £1000 for her! I ended up selling all last years heifer calves and need to keep everything I breed for a while now.

Stephanie

[Jac]

Sadly I only got about half as much for Dexters I sold pre selling a calf using a high LA score from her Dam, my dear friend Beryl had already been dead for many years, the only change had been the LA, simple as that.

Stephanie

So you are saying that the Dexters you sold both had the same parents the only difference was one had a LA score?

If so did you ask £1,000 for them?

[Saffy]

I sold Petrels heifer calf but I sold others that I had sold calves from several years running. This time they made over double the price. The mothers had been LA'd, the buyer wanted to know the scores, I assume this was at least partly the reason for the higher prices.

Stephanie

[Jac]

I sold Petrels heifer calf but I sold others that I had sold calves from several years running. This time they made over double the price. The mothers had been LA'd, the buyer wanted to know the scores, I assume this was at least partly the reason for the higher prices.

Stephanie

But were you 'cheeky' enough to ask the inflated price (don't take that the wrong way!) initially.

I had a very nice Dutch Warmblood that I bought as a foal, he was doing very nicely had been broken, bit of basic dressage and nice shape popping over a jump or two so was showing great potential as an event prospect. I wanted rid and tried to sell him I didn't pay much for him and just added on a bit to cover expenses. The upshot was no interest at all. Horse and Hound not one phone call. Was moaning to my solicitor and he said to me it's too cheap triple your price. The phone was ringing off the hook, couldn't believe it. SOLD straight away. Now I'm not saying that you can inflate rubbish and sell it but would you have had the nerve to ask the price in the first place if not how do you know they wouldn't have paid? Or did the linear score bolster your confidence?

[Rob R]

Like I said previously, it is the overall average that is important in influencing opinion, not individual animal or herd results, so lets not put too much emphasis on this either for or against the LA.

[Jac]

Like I said previously, it is the overall average that is important in influencing opinion, not individual animal or herd results, so lets not put too much emphasis on this either for or against the LA.

You'll have to explain that one I've tied myself up in knots.

[Rob R]

Like I said previously, it is the overall average that is important in influencing opinion, not individual animal or herd results, so lets not put too much emphasis on this either for or against the LA.

You'll have to explain that one I've tied myself up in knots.

I mean that one animal or one herd with good scores and good prices can always be dismissed or bigged up on the basis of the LA or it's background reputation, according to the opinion of the person interpretting it. It's more difficult to do that if ten herds are consistently achieving better prices for their breeding stock. If those ten herds are also achieving better returns from their non-pedigree heifers and steers then I think that will be the key to getting it more mainstream.

To rely upon the prices alone sinking in to breeders minds by osmosis is probably going to be a long process, so if the figures can be recorded, collated and presented, perhaps in a bulletin article or three, then that will speed it up. A few press articles about it too would help, so that when people Google 'Dexter cattle', and an article in Farmers Weekly or Guardian appears pops up, that will strengthen the message to the wider public.

[Rob R]

I agree with what you say about prices, btw, unless you ask the same price for both the LA & the non-LA stock you can't reliably compare the two. What that does show is that LA seems to give greater confidence to the vendor that they have a decent animal and therefore the 'selling' element of the assessment is directed at the breeder, not the buyer. If this encourages more vendors to ask more for their stock then it will have a positive effect on prices and possibly encourage people to beef more heifers (if they can't achieve the asking price), perhaps.

[Jac]

I agree with what you say about prices, btw, unless you ask the same price for both the LA & the non-LA stock you can't reliably compare the two. What that does show is that LA seems to give greater confidence to the vendor that they have a decent animal and therefore the 'selling' element of the assessment is directed at the breeder, not the buyer. If this encourages more vendors to ask more for their stock then it will have a positive effect on prices and possibly encourage people to beef more heifers (if they can't achieve the asking price), perhaps.

Do we have our ten herds? Steph's out she has nothing to sell. This could take some time.

I wouldn't bank on them beefing the 'poors' looking at the herd book some are still breeding with them.

[Rob R]

I agree with what you say about prices, btw, unless you ask the same price for both the LA & the non-LA stock you can't reliably compare the two. What that does show is that LA seems to give greater confidence to the vendor that they have a decent animal and therefore the 'selling' element of the assessment is directed at the breeder, not the buyer. If this encourages more vendors to ask more for their stock then it will have a positive effect on prices and possibly encourage people to beef more heifers (if they can't achieve the asking price), perhaps.

Do we have our ten herds? Steph's out she has nothing to sell. This could take some time.

I wouldn't bank on them beefing the 'poors' looking at the herd book some are still breeding with them.

I didn't mean to be beefing the ones with poor scores - if I had a good, productive animal that got a poor score, I certainly would cull it for that reason alone. However, if one was selling breeding stock at twice the price because the scores were better, there'd be less incentive to sell every last one, particularly if the beef price is more than what you would get for it. I know that you could do this without the assessment, but many don't. If you're trying to maintain a reputation for high scoring animals, this might just be the extra incentive required, maybe.