Jac wrote:Rob R wrote:
Jac said to me that it is a false economy to buy a cheaper cow, yet hasn't managed to demonstrate why or how.
As I said it suits you to keep the cows the way you do and breed them and kill them. You do not need cattle of the type that Mark is selling for your purposes at the price he is charging. However, if Mark tried to sell for £1,000 one of his cows that was not all of the things that he said they were he simply wouldn't get his £1,000. There are many people on the site that cannot get anywhere near those prices as you have found out but that as I say, is entirely in their own hands.
Cows can jump of course they can, a good temperament is just as important as adequate fencing. I do not have steeplechasers here (halter trained or not ) and if any of my cattle did suddenly decide to fence hop, they would find themselves hanging in the cold room in double quick time because I cannot afford to sell loopy cows to anyone.
As I said, it is up to the individual as they determine the price. I wouldn't sell an animal for less money than I had paid for it and if it didn't live up to my expectations it would be hanging alongside the fence hopper in the cold room.
Hope your steer moving went OK off now to clean the butchery as I have one waiting to be cut (not a fence hopper).
Sorry, I cannot agree with the idea that selling at £1000 is entirely in their own hands for the simple matter of supply and demand. There are enough people out there willing to take Mark's stock (I presume) but if everyone started to do that tomorrow, that would bring down the price of the thousand pound cows, as Mark would have more competition and the buyers would have more choice.
"As I said it suits you to keep the cows the way you do and breed them and kill them."
I'm not quite sure if I am taking this written word quite the right way, but isn't that exactly what everyone does with their Dexters? I suppose there are some people who just buy in stock to show, or the odd unbred heifers kept as pets, but they must be a very small number. You seem to be under the impression that I buy any old crocks and feed them up, and I can assure you that isn't the case. I keep Dexters for far more than their meat (I think I'd need certifying if I chose Dexters for that alone).
I'm very passionate about conservation and I'm native to a very special part of the world in a very rare landscape. I find Dexters suit this landscape very well, far better than larger breeds, precisely because they are more athletic and lighter they 1) don't damage the wetlands as much, 2) are proper 'grazing' cattle, capable of turning a wide variety of grasses and other forages into very tasty meat and 3) are capable of getting themselves out if the flood waters come up quicker than we can move them (which can easily happen in such a flat expanse of floodplain). They are also cattle of the type and size that were around when this landscape was first managed by man ~1000 years ago, so they suit it very well. An unfortunate aspect of this landscape is that it's very wet - fence posts either rot off at the base or further up, as they can be completely submerged in winter. Even on the high and 'dry' ground (it's still heavy clay) we've found the posts can lift out in winter if there's tension in the wire. Fences aren't all that common either - the way the land was managed as water meadows was that the hay cut would be taken from your 'plot' and then the aftermath would be grazed in common. These days, with enclosure and biosecurity, we've had to adapt. In places this involves everyone taking their cut and then one person grazing the aftermath, in others we use electric fences to subdivide it or one person may rent a significant area in one lump, as there are fewer farmers around, and even fewer of them willing to take on grazing cattle on the meadows, as a result we could quite easily loose this internationally important ecosystem through under grazing.
I'm looking for specific things in my herd that makes them good cows that will do the job, but very few people are keeping cattle for this purpose and not many of them are Dexters, so while I may end up paying above average prices, there is no economic advantage in the four-figure animals. You said that it was a false economy for me not to be buying them, I think this discussion has now concluded that that is only the case in a few, very narrow sets of circumstances.
I haven't sold many heifers in my time, and that's because I want to keep the good animals and I don't feel a need to flood the market with more of the less good ones. There are also a third group that are the ones that don't look the best, at least not by 30 months of age, if ever, but go on to be very good and productive cows that pay their way. I've had to buy in stock in recent years, as it became clear that breeding up alone would not be enough to keep pace with the land that I have available or the demand for the wonderful grassfed beef.
Temperament is
vital in my Dexters, they may not be a dope on a rope, but equally I have no place for animals that are out to do anyone any harm. I don't care how many thousands an animal goes for, it's not worth £1 to me if it puts me or my family in danger. I don't have the time to train every cow to walk on a rope, but they do all go on a halter if needed.
I don't think the famous Dexter 'character' is vicious though, it's not always easy, particularly if you're not used to cattle, and as Duncan says, they are very sharp and do learn very quickly; that doesn't just apply to fences. If you've managed to select/breed that intelligence out of them then I suspect that, like many larger breeds, you can keep them behind a couple of strands of barbed wire. In the past I have taken on cattle from from novices who have found them too much to handle yet for us they have been fine, so that's why I don't think they are a novices breed - they seem able to work out if you're not confident or competent and will take advantage if they sense a weakness.
The steer moving was sucessful today, thanks. I then went to move the cows, didn't get rained on, and saw two barn owls hunting, disturbed a heron and saw a small toad in the grazing aftermath.
We also saw a neighbour's Limousin bull and some continental cross cows - I've told my wife to slap me very hard if I ever consider getting some! They may stay behind some pretty ropey fencing (presumably because they're so large that they can't actually move that well, but also, perhaps, because they are not grazing animals, like Dexters are, and are only really outside to save on straw) but they just look impossible to handle and not safe to be around. I'm sure the pedigree showmen will say it's all down to training but they don't have to be trying to do you harm to cause some serious damage, and if they do turn on you you'd have no chance.
