Saltaire Platinum & colour

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:05 pm

I'm filling in the registration forms for my heifers and I need to know about the colours of Saltaire Platinum's ancestors. He was black so must have had a red ancestor and my pedigree of him doesn't indicate colour. Here in Canada, in order to register a red, we have to have it DNA'd if it has no registered red parent/grandparent/greatgrandparent on both sides. Does anyone know about his ancestors' colours?

Thanks!

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:29 pm

Hi Kathy; I would put a call into Ron B at the CLRC. Saltaire has red proginy so he must be a known carrier. Liz

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:47 pm

Thanks, Liz, but this is a new rule just out this summer. His red progeny could have had a red on the dam's side but I need to know who was red on his side. Do the British pedigree records not display the animal's colour?

Kathy

marion · Post by **marion** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:31 pm

Hi Kathy, The wording of the bylaw in my opinion, needs changing and clarifying. I believe the intention was to minimize the need for genetic testing. Supposing an (untested) black cow bred to a red bull, had a red calf that was tested and registered. Then obviously that dam is a red carrier. Any other red calves from that cow (with red on the sires' side) should not have to be tested, as by the records, that cow is a red carrier.
Platinum as an AI bull was known to carry red, and advertised as such, so logically you should not have to red test your calf...marion

Kathy Millar · Post by **Kathy Millar** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:00 pm

Marion, good point about the blacks! My black cow has produced several reds. Ron Black did a good job of explaining the amendment, otherwise I would never have figured it out! Just out of curiosity, can a black animal's DNA be tested to see if it is a red carrier?

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:54 pm

Yes, it can now...same with Dun. Liz

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:28 am

I would have thought that testing was redundant if a Black Dexter had a Red calf. It would be perfectly obvious that the cow carrys Red. You know which cow had the calf, so it shouldn't be disputed. It is also obvious that the bull must have carried Red as well. So I fail to see the need for testeing? ???

Liz D · Post by **Liz D** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:57 pm

You are right Inger - production of a red or dun calf from blacks means that both cow and bull were carriers of that or both colours and you would think that common sense would prevail if either had 'tested' progeny on the ground! Liz

Kirk- Cascade Herd US · Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:59 am

Our bull has been tested for red (he is e/e) and we know for certain that our black cows carry red (they are ED/e). If they have a red appearing offspring you would think you could assume they were red. But if the bull and the cow also carry dun, then a red appearing offspring might actually be dun. Therefore, we had our bull tested to make certain he doesn't carry dun, so we can assume that all of his red appearing calves born to black cows, are actually red.

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:21 am

If you wait a bit longer, the colour of the calf should become obvious shouldn't it? It might be be a bit difficult to tell at birth, but it should change later. The skin on the nose and in the ears will be different for Duns than Reds as well.

JamsHundred · Post by **JamsHundred** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:35 am

All the early breeding of Saltaire in the US were to a red cow, so that the red in most lines could be coming from her.

I've been doing genetic research on the red and dun colors in America, trying to identify which was which, since Americans did not know the dun color until Ms. Rutherford visited in the 80's and identified it as not being red, as it was then identified.

I found it interesting that there were not many reds in the English herdbooks in the early records, and the numbers did not increase dramatically until after the middle of last century when the numbers in the appendix rapidly multiplied and it seems red came in often on the Jersey breed.

Researching the bull Parndon Charley Pudding, (black) I found it interesting that when bred to the animals in the purebred herd, he threw black calves, but when bred to animals in the appendix registry he threw red calves, with the exception of only a couple. ( Most noted in the Templeton herd in the mid sixties). I think he or one of his offspring is in the extended Platinum pedigree.

jeanthomas · Post by **jeanthomas** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:20 pm

I don't know if you have access to a copy of the Proceedings of The First World Congress on Dexter Cattle. On page 159, Andrew Sheppy reports on his findings of the Parndon line. It makes fairly depressing reading and casts doubt on Charley Puddings breeding, suggesting he may have been half Guernsey. This may explain him throwing red calves from appendix animals, as many of these appendix animals did have Channel Island ancestors.