Problems other than bulldog calves

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 5:48 pm

While bulldog calves in Dexters obviously exercise the mind of everyone I wonder what, if any, attention has been paid to other reasons for unsuccessful calving or fertility problems in Dexters. What is the percentage of too big or wrongly positioned calves for instance in large cows against those in Dexters? I understand from my vet that many 'big' breeds give sire infomation such as easy calving i.e siring smaller calves. Is any research underway about this, or about feeding regimes to optimise successful calving. Or are Dexters considered to be such easy care cows that such things are unneccessary and all losses put down to 'bad luck' and the age old 'where there is livestock there is deadstock'.

RegK · Post by **RegK** » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:31 pm

My understanding is that as a rarer breed Dexters are not raised commercially i.e. large scale (otherwise they wouldn't be rare) and so the statistics that make a difference in the commercial market simply aren't collected. I may be wrong but that's the feedback I get from wandering around the cattle sheds at the big country shows etc.
I recently heard a horror story about a bulldog birth and I don't envy anyone who is unlucky enough to experience it, let alone the cow!

Kathleen · Post by **Kathleen** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:11 am

Great question Sylvia,

I have had an issue with this lack of information for some time ... and RegK is correct but IMHO it has more to do with who breeds Dexters than anything.

But to continue Sylvia you have access to more info on the breed there in Brit than we do here. I have no way of looking at the herd book and seeing _dead_ calf details ... I was actually amazed to see certain studs had VERY high instances of _dead calves_ (now I need to clarify that they were NOT BD's but _dead_) ... so I would suggest that to begin with you have a squiz at your herd book.

Re: "I recently heard a horror story about a bulldog birth and I don't envy anyone who is unlucky enough to experience it, let alone the cow!"
This is something that I have heard/read before ... and I am always at a loss to understand why the cow is going to be 'traumatized' ? ... I have seen one bull dog calf (it was not born in my herd but belonged to a woman who wanted to use my bull ... who was waiting for her cow to calve ... and who called me when her cow had the calf) they are aborted pre-full term and they are small and pathetic ... and as far as the cow is concerned she has had a dead calf... I do not think she looks down at it and thinks "oh my god what a mostrosity" that is something that humans do because they see something that is abnormal and have a horror of it.

Though ironically some breeders have no horror for things they should ...there are various things I have seen in breeding Dexters which I consider far far worse and horrific... like a cow that has a wry tail so far out of alignment with her back bone that she walks like a cripple ... and ... and I will leave it at that one example.

Back to the subject of calving ...I actually feel more sympathy for the cows that have breech calves ... one of my longlegs heifers had one in the night and she was _not a happy girl_ !

Regards
Kathleen Carson.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:25 am

Well Kathleen I have a confession to make, I was so cross with the attitude of DCS when they said we had got to send them all details of all births whatever happened without any suggestion that such info would be useful in any way that I said 's**** it' why should I? As a newcomer to herd books and their use I did not understand that useful info beyond pedigrees could be obtained from them and would happily send in complete info if it had been explained.

I also have a comment about rare breeds, well more of a question really. What happens to a rare breed if it is successful enough to increase numbers to take it out of rare breed status? This has recently happened with Shetland sheep. Although money may be thrown at keeping a breed going there comes a time, if the breed increases in numbers, when some recompense must be forthcoming to cover costs at least. Otherwise they will be destined to remain as farm park exhibits or country pets for those with a few acres or simply to parade round show rings? Which seems a bit of a waste really.

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:24 pm

Sylvia asks "what happens if a rare breed ceases to be rare" - the UK Dexter is an excellent example, and has not been a rare breed for many years, and I think we are now even above the guidelines for being a "minority" breed. One of the main changes I see likely to happen is that there will be many more who breed but do not wish to go to the bother and expense of registration. This in itself is not necessarily bad but means we must remember the differences between registered and non registered stock, and there is a need for first time buyers to appreciate the difference. If we look at other breeds eg holsteins, although there are many hundreds of thousands of pure commercial cattle there are comparatively few registered with the breed society.

Duncan