Barn size

[carole]

We have been reading the site over many months and want to say thanks so so many members for there help and inspiration, but one thing we have not found concerns the size of a barn.
We are about to seek planning permission for a barn for our new and growing herd of Dexters, We currently have 6 girls and expecting/hoping we have 5 calves shortly to run on 27 acres.
Given that we wanted to have a herd of about twice the size in years to come, what advice would members give about building a barn to over winter them in and also place enough hay to feed them over the winter. In particular the size and materials used, if anybody wants to recommend a builder??
In case it helps we are located in Cornwall.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

Whatever size of shed you use there is one universal finding when you get it complete - it will be too small.

About 5 years ago we expanded our herd and changed from tied in a byre to a new shed with bedded pens. We have senior bull, four breeding females, yearling bull and bullock and 3 calves. A shed 20 x 30 feet just about holds them, but as I planned it to hold hay as well it is very tight in the autumn until they have eaten some hay. Twice that size would allow storage of hay and bedding and enough pen space but not generous, so for your eventual herd size you would need at least double that again, ie. 40 x 60, ten feet at eaves. I suppose it

I take in all hay for the winter in July/August, and purchase large bales of straw as the winter goes on for bedding, use no concentrate. This winter the total numbers began at 8 with two calves born in the shed, and I have fed one small bale between them night and morning. Ours are housed form October to April inclusive, so we use a lot of hay. You may have a feeding system that takes up less space! For shed price I do not think you can better the big suppliers of sheds though smaller the shed the more expensive it is per square foot. We used Robinsons, I don't think they are trading in England now. The worst thing was getting them to erect it in time, and I ended up getting in a squad I knew to erect it and not paying Robinsons.

For penning we use high stock gates with pins to link them, have a variety of 6 8 and 10 foot gates so can vary the size. A mistake I made was not to get any with a small gate set in to make it easier to take animals in and out when the bedding builds up. I also forgot that the nominal measurements of the shed were outside not inside, so 20 feet wide is not much more than 18 inside, and 30 long became 28.

Duncan

[Sylvia]

We had a 100' x 50' barn built for the Dexters. Steel framed with blocks all round up to about 5'. Above the blocks, Yorkshire boarding on 2 sides, solid steel sheets on one side and half solid/half slatted steel sheets on the fourth side. There are 3 doorways big enough to get a tractor in. We have put galebreakers on these to stop a gale blowing through but good ventilation is esssential. We have had over 60 in there this winter and we start with almost a quarter filled with big bale straw. We have big bale haylage stored outside. There is a concreted path down the centre on which we feed haylage and the cows stick their heads through barriers for this. It works for adults but you need secure gated pens for youngsters and cows with calves or you will never know where they are. I agree with Duncan, whatever size you choose you will wish you'd had larger, so get the biggest the site and your pocket can afford. Also go for one of the big suppliers, we used Shufflebottom (recommended) after wasting almost a year with some local so and so who kept promising a second hand, cheap option but never produced it. You will need access to the site for a large lorry. Planning for an agricultural building shouldn't be a problem, it will probably be dealt with by an officer rather than go to committee unless you are in a very sensitive area. Allow plenty of time. Good luck.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

The bigger suppliers will probably help with the planning, varies according to geographical area, size of shed and proximity to holding boundaries. I went for a general purpose shed and then put movable pens in, regulations not so strict here, we did not have to go into drainage, waste storage etc.

Remember when they deliver the bits that you need a concrete lorry in to put in the bases for uprights. Professionals get these things in right place and levels sorted very quickly.

Duncan

[Louisa Gidney]

I heartily endorse the suggestion that what ever you plan, make it bigger! The one big mistake I made was not to make the internal partition gates easy to move higher as the muck builds up. In time, the long legged girls can jump over, fights break out & its de facto turn out time, whatever the weather.

[Duncan MacIntyre]

One advantage of using the moveable linking gates is that although they look ridiculously high they do allow for a rise in the bedding.

The fights that Louisa mentions are something I forgot to say something about earlier - cattle which are happy to share a field may well take a dislike to each other when they are in a small pen. I have certain cows which cannot be penned together, and in the days when I had horne and polled, one of the polled ones was the dirtiest fighter, even with horned companions.

Duncan

[Sylvia]

I must have been particularly dozy yesterday when I posted details of our Dexter barn - I've only spent 3 or 4 hours a day up there all winter! Anyway, although we have barns built with blocks, the Dexter barn has concrete panels which slot in between the uprights. These build very quickly and are smooth for hosing down if you want to but we have found it difficult to drill them neatly to fit water bowls etc.

Muck building up does make opening (and in particular closing again) gates difficult. Aiming to clean out more often during housed period might be preferable. If you set gates high enough to cope with muck smaller Dexters, bless them, will go under when they are first put in.

[carole]

thanks to you all for your replies, as ever this is so useful to gain an insight to better way forward
thanks again