Red Dexter black nose

[fallowfield-dexters]

Hello,
Quite new to the Dexters, however I'm slightly confused I have bought a beautiful red cow who I showed last year, however she has a black nose and black feet. One of the other breeders bought up that it is against the breed standard, however I've finally got round to looking on the breed standard on the website and couldnt find it saying this. Is this just something thats meant to just be known or is it acceptable?

Charlie

[Broomcroft]

Red calves with black noses turn black in my experience. But I assume you are talking about an adult. Is the nose black or just dark grey/brown?

As an example, this red calf turned black at a few months old:



Never heard about the breed standard and red with black noses. I don't think brindle is allowed but I've got a registered brindle. When I registered her she was red. But she had and still has a pink nose!

Here's an adult cow with a grey nose for comparison. She was born red and stayed red:

[Steve]

Hi Charlie
Thats an interesting one, I too checked breed standard on reds ref the black nose/feet question. Many years ago a red cow with black nose & feet regularly won in the show ring, and I've also seen cows with totally cream tails win too! Nowadays all reds in the show ring seem to have pink noses,.... so someone somewhere...............must have decided! I have noticed that the nice dark red cattle (like the reds seen in ancient photos) often have a the most cream in the tail & the paler reds often have black in the tails. Maybe it can be traced back to when bloodlines were short & jersey bloodlines were introduced, which probably accounts for black noses & feet too. Anyone else got any theories?
Steve

[fallowfield-dexters]

I cant figure out how to upload a picture to show you, however I would say it is the colour of your cow you mentioned. Siobhan ended up coming 3rd and the judge said she could of come first had it not been for the black nose and feet. At the time she was rearing twins and I believe is a really nice cow and so I dont want to not take her out but now lack in confidence if it isnt correct. One of the other breeders at the show who bought it to the attention of the judge that it was incorrect said its because of the Jersey line and thats why its wrong. However I just found it slightly unfair when its not mentioned on the breed standard and perhaps it should be if its so bad? I love Siobhan either way and will continue to breed from her as last year she calved a red steer with pink nose and feet but just wanted opinions

[Mark Bowles]

Trust me this is a very tricky subject. There are all sorts of explanations, theories etc which i would not go into.
In the showring an animal is judged against the other animals. For linear assesment the animal is judged against a set criteria/system.
When we set up the linear the biggest question was how to grade red cattle as there are all sorts of coulor faults with reds.
The upshot for linear was that we finally decided to enforce the breed standard which specifies a whole colour black/red/dun.
Bringing this back to your red cow, i would suggest that if she has a black nose then somewhere on her body she would show signs of a darker red bodering on black. I have never seen a red animal with a black nose that continues to be a whole colour red, they either have a black/dark muzzle, black/dark head, blackdark stripes or a black/dark tail. A whole colour breed standard indicates from muzzle to tail must be the same shade red. Has you cow got dark areas on her?
Having said all i have i am sure there will be plenty of reaction to this out there with other breeders.
I have an animal described of the above that i have kept to try to get a nice black offspring. The colour does not make her a bad animal.
Now everyone can dive in and rip this reply to bits.

[fallowfield-dexters]

Is there a way to upload pictures to show you?
I also find it really helpful as I said im a novice and did just get a little disheartened as I studied the breed standard or so I thought when I bought her to try and get a nice heifer, hence why I just wanted opinions, I value all thoughts on the matter and am finding the whole discussion board really helpful by reading the posts and learning so much from others who comment on other posts. Ive kept Irish Moileds, and work with Belted Galloways and Gloucesters and so am learning the Dexter way
Charlie

[Saffy]

To upload a picture.

It is often easiest to Google Photobucket and put your photographs on there. Follow the directions to upload it is quite easy.

Then when you are ready to display a photo on a post have your photobucket open on the pic you want and right click image code, it will say copied, go to your post and right click paste. It will leave a code on the page.

If you can't do it PM me I will give you my email and you can email a pic to me and I will do it for you.

Stephanie

[Broomcroft]

Colour is complex. Apparently apart from colour genes there are also shading genes. My little red heifer that turned black is apparently 100% genetically red, and when put to a red bull, even though she is black to look at, will have 100% red calves as would a visually red cow.

If you're interested in colour, this discussion some years ago is a great read http://www.dextercattleforsale.co.uk/ph ... ds+of+reds

If you read through it, you should find out about the black-nosed reds explained very well by Kirk of the Cascade Herd USA.

[fallowfield-dexters]

Ok this is Siobhan and her calves, she is said cow


Then this is her face

Her knees are actually dirty and when washed she remains the same colour. I'd be interested to hear what people think whether she is the true red? Also just out of interest would you say she appears fat in these pictures, I think perhaps she is but she was actually feeding both calves at this point and not back in calf.

Clive thank you that is a really useful the post and am ready to print off for future reference

[Broomcroft]

Hard to tell from the photo but she looks like she needs to go on a diet asap. Nice cow and calf. Has she got a swollen right eye lid?

Her nose is not black though, it's dark grey / brown. Most of my reds were like this when I bred them. Some people think that a pink nose means they are "true" red, but I don't think that's right. If you go through all the posts by Kirk, not just the one I pointed to, you'll find a wealth of information including nose colour.

[debra wiltshire]

I bought, from the society the 'Dexter Showing handbook' which I have found very useful as newbies to the showing world.
On page 7 there are the Breed Guidelines for showing for both male and females. Under the colour section in the box marked 'desirable' is whole red (Pink nose) under 'acceptable for showing' red with darker faces (but undesirable) and under 'unacceptable for showing' black muzzle on reds. So as lovely as she is I would have thought your cow would be marked down for her dark nose...maybe one of the judges who use these pages may be brave enough to comment.
For us we have a red cow with a black nose whose red calves always come up pink and another cow is the complete opposite. Our red calves born with black noses always remained red.

[fallowfield-dexters]

First of all thank you for everybodys help and opinions,
Clive I had a look through that whole discussion and actually found it really interesting and helpful, so once again thank you The photo was taken last August just before she returned to the bull and she did have a swollen eye then and after a week it returned to normal presume she walked into a branch, completely forgot until you said that funny how these things remind us. I do struggle to put her on a diet as over winter she had minimum grass, no hay/silage, was feeding twins and still appeared well, shes wormed and even had vet to check as she doesnt seem to loose weight perhaps she just holds her weight well, at present she is on a little 1 acre field for a neighbour, but I bought a new 7 month calf yesterday who will hopefully help her munch the grass away.
Debra thank you too for your comment its only the black nose part that baffled me as it isnt on the actual breed standard, but I guess its because they are still registerable with black noses and so accepted by the breed society just not in the show ring which is where the book obviously comes in handy. I'll probably still take her to my little local shows as she doesnt disgrace herself when at shows but I shant be expecting to win, if nothing else its a brilliant way to halter train calves and forces you to before a show