what planet are the council on - councils new charges

redhill · Post by **redhill** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:18 am

Today we recieved a letter from the DCS, with various details most of which lead me to believe that all the good work done by the steering committee will be undone within a very short time span.
As most of us know we are entering a world wide ressesion (obviously the Council of the DCS is not aware of this yet) whilst the banks, the government and shops are lowering the cost of living to try to get us through this the DCS has increased its charges by over 17% how can they justify this in the present climate,
for those who have a 2nd income this may be of no concern but for those of us who have to make our Dexters pay their way it is not possible to absorb such increases.
added to this, even though we passed a motion at the EGM to allow teleconferencing as far as I know this has not yet been taken advantage of, so it would appear that the councill can and intend to spend what ever they wish on their own expences instead of taking the cheaper option to save money.
As we all know (thanks to beef on line) Dexter beef is in great demand, a 2 year old heifer is worth about twice as much on the hook as it is to sell for breeding so do we need to register anything,
a Dexter is a Dexter with or without a pedigree.
I feel that the only thing the council will achieved by increasing the fees by over 17% is a reduction in both membership and registrations not to mention a reduction in blood lines due to unregistered bulls being used we could soon be back to were we were 50 years ago.
In less than 24hrs after we recieved this information I have been told that 3 members will not be renewing their membership for 2009 and thats in our imediate area how many more will there be nationwide?
If the DCS loses just 5% of its present membership and registrations I estimate that even with the over 17% increase it will have less income in 2009 than it had in 2008.
Bill, Castlemears Dexters.

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:04 am

In fairness I can see what a difficult tightrope the DCS are treading here and agree that fees do have to go up. The only thing that stands out for me that I would question is the cost of registration of a bull up to 18 months.

If this price could be kept down and more people kept a bull there would be a much greater spread of genetic material in the Dexter breed for future breeders to pick from, I don’t think we really want to lose anything we have today by making it too expensive to keep an animal both entire and registered do we?

I admit I am not great with figures, genetics etc so I am probably way off the mark here but in thoery if DNA typing is £22 and registering a heifer is £15, would it be a possibility to consider subsidising the bull calf registrations just slightly and do them at say £35 to encourage more bulls to be kept and registered in future?

Stephanie

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:20 pm

Well, this is someone else who will not be continuing my DCS subscriptions. But it has little to do with society fees.
I had an older cow put down in the week (damaged hip and no future for her) and my last 2 went clear on their tb test and are heading for a new home in the near future. I have 4 steers left who will go for beef over the next 2 - 3 years and then all my connections with Dexters will be severed. I do miss my herd and don't really want salt rubbed into the wound by reading about what others are doing.

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:34 pm

I'm not worried about the price increases for the DCS, an increase was inevitable. No-one likes a price increase and I'm sure the Council have not taken this course of action without great thought. Try registering a litter of puppies with the Kennel Club that's an expensive game & I'm sure other Society fees are higher than those of the DCS.

What does concern me is that having just purchased
3 x Hi-Mag cattle mineral buckets from Countrywide Farmers, I was shocked to find they had increased by some 30% since two weeks ago (an increase of £5 each - now £20.99!!). Having checked with another branch to find the price is correct & other farmers are unhappy, I will be writing a letter of complaint to their Head Office. Probably fall on deaf ears, but it will make me feel better.

The abattoir have just increased their slaughter costs by £5 per head, but to be fair we have not had an increase in this department for some three years.

We were going to absorb the increase in slaughter costs for now due to the financial downturn, but will now have to look at our selling price in the New Year.
With some 150+ cattle, we do get through a lot of buckets each year.

We will still continue to register heifers. Just bear in mind there are farmers in Gloucestershire and elsewhere who have been caught out by Trading Standards selling beef for example as Aberden Angus, when it is in fact something else. By having registered / birth notified animals it does add some credence to the meat we are producing.

Now I've got over my anger with Countrywide I'll just make sure all our farm records are 100% in readiness for the dreaded TB test on Monday! Monday is the hard working day - Thursday (test reading day) will arrive and our stress levels will be very high!! Another two great days off as Annual Leave from my job!

Regards

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

Ken Hobbs · Post by **Ken Hobbs** » Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:45 pm

Just to add my point of view on the increase in fee's, We cannot blame the new Council, if you note at the top of the page it says, Quote: the Steering committee put forward a suggestion that the fees had not been changed for four years and it is with this in mind that the Council present the revised fee structure as below: The new Council will only have just come to this conclusion from figures advised to them by the Treasuerer, we as members do not know or will have the information available to us untill next October what the expenditure of Society funds have been under the Steering Commitee.
But I cannot see why the fees need to been increased, Less Bulletins, a saving of at least £2000 per issue, Gift Aid only claimed £2000 instead of the usual £5k +, and a profit of just under £2K.
My understanding is that if all members pay the extra £5 membership fees this will add approx £6K therefore my reasoning is that if we claim the full Gift Aid this will give us £3K+ profit on last years claim of £2K, one less Bulletin £2K and nomal good fiscal awareness will give us a slight profit. This is all we need as a Charity
BUT what did the steering committee spend? I have good idea where very large savings could have been made but I will not air them here.
Please do not blame this New Council they are working for us, I thank them whole heartedly for there quick response to a request for a fully audited copy of the accounts, under the old regime I was turned down on many occasions, For those who are interested in accounting procedures you are entitle to a full copy of the accountsunder Chapter 7 of the Companies Act 2006 you do not have to go to Companies House and pay for them.
I am looking forward to see the accounts in October for ependiture up Dec this year,

Finally where is the Genetics report? £15K of members money!!!

Peter thornton · Post by **Peter thornton** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:13 pm

These things aren't easy, and I'll avoid getting into the financial affairs discussion - but I do feel that the most important thing is to make life a little easier for members.
Can we PLEASE review the "over age" fees for females? Why do we need these? How is it more costly to register an animal at 11 months rather than 29 days?
And PLEASE make it a little easier to register a bull. It's this last point that are driving some members down the unregistered route

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:00 pm

I'm not going to get into financial details either other than to say that generally, the society's fees are not that much different in real terms than they have been for years. And if you think that prices can remain unchanged for five years in a row, then we haven't got much in common to discuss.

I agree with peter on the overage fees, both for cows and bulls, they make no sense at all, discourage good breeding and are an utter nonsense.

As far as Bill's comments that the trustees can spend what they wish on their own expenses, that is a highly offensive offensive and completely incorrect remark. My wife is a trustee and it cost her a great deal to even attend a meeting. Some trustees donate all or some of their expenses as a charitable gift to the society.

I would also add, that I am speechless at the letter that went out to members, but not as far as the fees (except overage) are concerned, but with regard to the statement that the society is going to promote the crossing of dexter bulls with dairy cows. Having just spent a year or more putting my heart and soul into dexter beef, to have the society say that it is going to promote the production of watered-down, inferior beef, that will be sold as dexter is beyond belief. Dexter is now the most searched for breed of beef on the web, it as ahead of angus and that is not a blip, it is a whole year's statistics, and what do the society do? Announce they're going to actually promote a watered-down version that has had deleterious effects on angus and other breeds as well. My wife, a trustee, knew nothing of this plan. Just brilliant!

ann · Post by **ann** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:43 pm

I think who ever came up with this idea is on another planet as NO dairy farmer that I know is going to cross his cows with a dexter and why should he. when there are now breeds like stabilizers which are gaining popularity with the dairy farmers and sexed semen coming along and saler's which produce quite small calves at birth but are much more viable carcass from the point of view of the commercial beef rearers. I can't see many of them beating a path to our doors. Dexter beef is special we all know that but most commercial farmers don't sell their beef at the farm gate ??? and therefore its size and a quick finishing carcass thats on their must list. ???

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:24 pm

On the subject of cross breeding this is something that I think the Society might countenance if we had set up a scheme to identify Dexter as Dexter. I had great hopes that the genetics project would throw up markers that could be used, but I am told that is not possible. However it would be possible to run DNA parentage checks on any offspring of any registered bull, so I think cross beef could be identified. If royalties were paid through an organised scheme to the Society and the bull breeder there might be something in it, but without something like that I certainly agree with Clive that pure Dexter is on a high and should be kept there, both reputation and price should be kept high in order to offset the high slaughter and butcher costs of pure Dexter beef. I am sure the Scottish scene lags behind south of the border, but we can sell more Dexter steers than we can produce at the moment.

Duncan

AlisonKirk · Post by **AlisonKirk** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:06 am

With the current financial climate you need to have something that is different and worth buying - Dexter breeders have just that. Our beef is in demand locally and another restaurant may be coming on board in the New Year. I am certain that would not be the case if we were selling Dexter X.

When registering cattle with BCMS, it is the sire that determines the breed. If a Dexter bull was to be used by dairy farmers, the progeny would be Dexter X, which as we all know would not be viable for them if sold in the commercial market, even if the Dexter bull was a beefy non-short. (We all know that mention Dexter in the commercial market and the bidding falls flat)!

May be a different scenario if the dairy farmer had a farm shop and sold the beef himself.

Alison Kirk
Boram Dexters

davidw · Post by **davidw** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:41 am

I'd be very reluctant to support a scheme to make Dexter cross beef more available. I feel its a sure route to the sort of watered down scheme that the Red Tractor scheme has become. Most consumers believe the Red Tractor represents British produce, but it does anything but because the supermarkets paste the logo on everything they can import.

Please lets sell only 100% Dexter beef as Dexter beef. That way it can be controlled - It is Dexter or it isn't Dexter, no questions, no half measures.

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:47 pm

Although on Council I have heard no discussion on the question of crossing. Like most of the contributors I would deplore any suggestion of using the cross in beef promotion. However, over the years I have sold Dexter bulls for use in dairy herds on first calving heifers to avoid calving problems, the resulting calf was not sold as a Dexter cross, but providing the sire was a non carrier bull it made quite a useful calf.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

redhill · Post by **redhill** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:45 am

I too have experienced the crossing of a Dexter bull on two holstien heifers belonging to a freind of ours, the two resultant calves were a heifer that went on to milk and milked very well the steer calf was sold at 27months old as meat and made £1090 so there is a very good reason for dairy farmers to use Dexter bulls on their heifers.
that said the traditional Dexter is the best beef anyone can find so don't lets even think of destroying the really excellent product that we have by crossing our cows rather let our bulls improve other breeds. Bill, Castlemears Dexters