Chubby heifer

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:29 am

There is a one in twenty chance that a heifer twin to a bull will breed normally. I.e. she is 95% certain to be a freemartin. This is because the circulation in the two placentae overlap as they develop and male hormones circulate in the female calf's blood, inhibiting the normal development of the female reproductive tract. Just occasionally this does not happen and she is ok.

Twins most often come from two eggs. Very occasionally the embryo can divide completely and this then creates identical twins. Genetically they are absolutely identical, so must therefore be of the same sex. Non identical twins are genetically related to one another in the same way as any other siblings from the same parents.

I have had the surprise of twin calves very early on in my dexter keeping, both female but definitely non identical as one was long and the other short. Although it is in a way exciting when it happens in general I do not think twins are really a good thing in cattles, partly because of the freemartin issue, partly because of all the extra trouble it brings on the cow - drags her condition down before calving, more likely to retain placenta,s more likely to have fertility problems such as whites afterwards. Certainly a big disadvantage to a modern dairy cow, yet they seem to be more common now than they used to be. I am not sure if this is because cattle breeders are not being careful enough avoiding twin producing lines in AI bulls, or it is because nutrition is better than it used to be and cows more frequently release two eggs. One of our dairy farmers here has had as many as 33 sets of twins out of 150 cows in a year, fortunately not every year.

Duncan

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:38 pm

Oh well I was completely wrong - sorry everyone. Thanks for putting me right Duncan!

Stephanie

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:16 pm

Is it OK to breed from identical twin females?

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:49 pm

The only reason not to would be to avoid breeding cattle more likely to have twins. How strongly this is inherited I do not know - maybe Kirk will be able to throw some light. Likewise keeping a bull out of a cow which produced twins, or was himself a twin, might in future generations increase the number of twins. These increases would be likely to be slow trends rather than dramatic changes, but over long term maybe important.

Duncan

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:06 pm

Hopefully I have put up a picture of our twins, Burnside Lemon and Burnside Lime, born 02.07.90 to Burnside Holly, sire Ilsington Bramble.

Duncan

Anna · Post by **Anna** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:50 pm

As far as I know the rate of Swedish cows having twins has increased considerably lately. I don´t know why, but assume it is a combination of hereditary and strong feeding (like a flushing effect on ewes).

But let´s hope my Hellen doesn´t carry twins, that would make two little bastards since she is AI´d with jersey semen. It was an act out of desperation when I after months of efforts to import Danish dexter semen got the information that I couldn´t have any (a long story, I may tell some other time). Since it was already November I decided to use jersey to at least have a chance to have her in calf in time.

I have now taken up the import efforts again and it looks like it MAY work this time. So hopefully both the cow and the heifer will get true dexter calfs next year..

(I don´t think Hellen IS carrying twins, she hasn´t lost that much condition.)

Edited By Anna on 1204571325

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:09 pm

Very nice Duncan, did you breed from them?

In the very early 70s we had twin heifers born in the Freisian herd here. They were not the best milkers when they came into the herd themselves and so they were put in calf to Charolais two years running, as 3rd and 4th calvers - they each produced two sets of Charolais twins.

However neither had twins before or after when on each occasion other breeds of bull were used, which we were advised were breeds less likely to throw twins.

Stephanie

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:29 pm

Burnside Lime, the short legged one of our pair, was sold at the Stoneleigh RBST sale in 1991, and no progeny are recorded though she may have bred unregistered calves. The long legged one, Lemon, was AI' several times and though I could have persisted longer I thought she was going to make too big a cow to be a good Dexter, so she went in the freezer at 19 months old, 330kgs live, 199kgs dead. She was one of the very best we have ever eaten, the only heifer. And I think the highest killing out percentage we have ever had too.

Duncan

Broomcroft · Post by **Broomcroft** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:12 pm

Found a photo of my female twins at last:

Mom is called Flame, kids are Chilli & Pepper. Sorry about quality.

mindenho · Post by **mindenho** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:40 pm

Great excitement - one of my heifers, Minden Blueberry, has just had twin heifers to Hill Farm Blink - one red and one black - first set of twins that have been born in the Minden herd since I started it 22 years ago! Cloudberry (red one) arrived first, she is also my first red calf, and we thought that was it. Several hours later Gooseberry appeared - she is tiny and was very weak so we got some colustrum and have bottle fed this into her - she is gaining strength and has now stood up but is very wobbly. Cloudberry has taken most of mum's colustrum so we will kepp Gooseberry on a bottle for a bit - is this a good idea? Will she eventually take to suckling Mum? Advice would be much appreciated.

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:04 pm

If I am not too late, I would try by some means to get some colostrum into her within six hours of birth. If she is weak it will be even more important to help her later to overcome all the bugs she will come up against within the next few weeks. Also it will ensure her mum doesn’t turn against her, because she doesn’t smell right. By all means supplement it with a bottle, but try and get her taking some of her mum’s milk. either direct, or in a bottle.
Beryl (Woodmagic)

mindenho · Post by **mindenho** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:50 pm

Thank you Beryl for your advice. We gave the weaker of the two some colostrum supplement and both calves are fine at the moment. I haven't seen Gooseberry suckle yet but she is certainly a lot stronger than she was earlier today and has passed her first droppings - I always feel this is a good sign.
Erica
(Minden Herd)

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:46 am

Delighted with the good news, I hope they both flourish, keep us posted, any chance of a picture? I assumed you probably were aware of the necessity for colostrum after 20 years, and put it in more for the benefit of newcomers who are not always aware of its importance, or how much the dam depends on smell for recognition. I would tend to keep her fairly tight on the bottle, and try to persuade her when the sucking impulse is there as she finishes the bottle. She may come to it on her own, overnight when she gets hungry. Good luck, I have been very grateful never to have twins, because I feel it pulls the dam down, but I would like your experience, I have never had a red, and long for one!
Beryl (Woodmagic)

mindenho · Post by **mindenho** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:27 pm

Both calves doing OK but the little one sadly has a touch of pneumonia - one of the dangers of bottle feeding I fear. She did however have a good suckle on mum and I am ever hopeful that with plenty of TLC and care she will survive. We have taken quite a number of photos but I'm not sure how to post one on here. If anyone can give me some guideance it would be much appreciated.

Erica

Saffy · Post by **Saffy** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:12 pm

Hi Erica,

The best way to do it is to first upload onto a site like photobucket.

Much easier than it sounds!

If you Google photobucket it will all be very obvious.

Then start your post on here, leave a gap below your writing if there is any, go to your pic on photobucket. Left click on the HTML Code, the word copied comes up, back to your post here and right click, a list comes up with paste in it, click paste. It should drop the pic as pile of print on your post. Try preview to see if it worked properly.

Must be easy I can do it.

Good luck - looking forward to the pics!!!

Stephanie