Herd Book - Future Herd Books

groubearfarm · Post by **groubearfarm** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 10:28 pm

Did we realise at the AGM when Council informed us there would be changes to the Herd book that we would no longer have a herd survey/herd list.
The Devon Group were horrified to learn this from a Council Member this weekend.
Do other members feel this is a sad and unnecessary economy.

Philippa Laing and Fiona Miles

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:54 pm

I am sure I can recollect that being mentioned, but I don't think I took it on board at the time. It has always been a great fascination to me to look through the herdbook and all the information it contains. But I suppose we have to remember that the number of herds has increased so much - around 60 in 1974 to 680 in 2003. I think we were told how small a proportion of members actually request a herd book.
Hopefully the full info will continue to be available in Ped-E-View.
I suspect that the Dexter breed has a much higher proportion of its pure bred cattle actually registered with the Society than most breeds. I don't know what proportion of pure Holstein/Friesians are registered but I should think it is tiny in comparison to the number of cows in the national herd. I think we will have to alter our view of non-registered stock and accept them for what they are - perfectly pure bred Dexters but with unregistered parentage. They will be just as valid in the commercial market. The unregistered stock will increase in two ways - some Dexter keepers will choose not to register any stock and just breed for meat. Others may well register a proportion of their stock, but keep part of the herd without registration.
This will not necessarily be a bad thing - it may lead to more critical selection of breeding stock, rather than registering and breeding with any available female regardless of quality.

Duncan

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:32 am

I think you may be describing the situation as it already is Duncan. In my miniscule experience I have found stock for sale that is registered and nice, not registered and equally nice, and registered and frankly dubious. My herd now consists of Dexters which are registered, Dexters which are not and which cannot be, but deserve to be, and Dexters which I'll try for a calf from and then probably send on. My main aim is meat production but that means choosing the right combination for breeding irrespective of whether they are registered. All this does not stop me from wanting a herd which 'looks right' and which I can be justifiably proud of at some time in the future. What I do not want to do is take any of my animals to shows.

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:09 pm

I am very sorry we are losing the herd survey part of the herd book I certainlynfind it most interesting and useful To save space surely the 2 sections births and herd survey could be put together i.e. composition of herd and under that a list of the births during the year.
Could that be considered?
Jo

Martin · Post by **Martin** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:22 am

Instead of changes to the make up of the herd book, would it not be of more benifit to make it a bi-annual publication?
In my own industry there is one huge exibition that has recently gone to every other year, which seems to have boosted visitor numbers. The Smithfield show is also a bi-annual event. Maybe by publishing every two years it would increase interest and reduce cost, which in most things seems to be the driving factor these days. And yes I have this years book and will be interested to buy any future books that are available, unless I find them less interesting and helpfull.

Liz · Post by **Liz** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:12 pm

Sad person that I am, I always read the herd survey section with interest - it really is the main reason I buy the herd book. I wonder if we'll see a fall in the number of buyers once that section has gone.

...Liz

Mike Hasshill · Post by **Mike Hasshill** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:05 pm

There seems to be a misunderstanding. Either only part of the message was given or only part was taken up. The question of the Herd Review is still being discussed. There are problems which are not generally known or appreciated. One solution put forward is to omit it from the Herd Book but publish it "in house" to those members who want it. This would be easier for a number of reasons. I would certainly order one. We do show results very successfully in similar manner.

Inger · Post by **Inger** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:20 pm

Can anybody tell me when Ped-E-View, mentioned by Duncan, is coming on-line? I and many of my fellow overseas breeders would dearly love to be able to get easy access to the old UK Herd Book records. I'm afraid it's one of my quirks that I don't like gaps in my records. Perhaps it comes from being a Librarian at school

Duncan MacIntyre · Post by **Duncan MacIntyre** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Inger,

Sorry I don't know if there are any plans to put Ped-e-View on-line, but I do have to confess to three years as a school librarian. Maybe former school librarian dexter owners should form a special society. I haven't lost the interest in books yet after 35 years - I think our house must have about half as many books as our entire school library did in the 1960's. Old, very old, books on agriculture and livestock are a particular interest

Duncan, sorry about the digression from dextering.

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:33 pm

I was very disappointed to hear that a dimunition of the Hed Book was in prospect. I certainly would welcome one entry for each herd thus reducing the size and cost by at least a third, but this alteration in format was required by Grass Roots. We appear to be asked to pay for our registrations twice, since Grass Roots is only available if we pay another subscription. I used to assume that my fee included the information of where my animals stood in relation to other animals, and to other breeders regarding my herd. Grass Roots on my computer does not equate to sitting browsing through the book on a winters night``Neither is it convenient when I am on the phone discussing with another breeder. Is it too much to ask that we have it once again in a sensible format withoutt cutting out most of the information that we require, in order to reduce costs, and fit in with Grass Roots requirments. Who is paying the tune? `

Rutherford · Post by **Rutherford** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:36 pm

Jo Kemp · Post by **Jo Kemp** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:09 pm

Stuart Tarrant phoned me to explain the problems - very kind of him.
there is a great increase in herds, as Duncan points out but I do agree with 'Rutherford' (still wish I could meet you!) a condensing of information rather than removal. I haven't yet had breeding stock to sell but when I do I want to be able to track them and their progeny.
Next year I hope to have semen to sell - if I manage to get some more clean hair follicules to check my bull for the bulldog gene - the first sample was 'contaminated' although we tried to keep things clean - use of gloves probably advisable and this time I shall take the sample from his neck rather than tail.
This re-test should be free as I have already paid.

I shall buy the herd survey booklet but I have noticed quite a few price rises recently (reminiscent of Gordon Brown no tax rise just a new one!)so hope there will be no more for a bit!

Jo

Mike Hasshill · Post by **Mike Hasshill** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:38 am

Alas and Alack and Woe is Me! Mike has led you astray like lost sheep, and all that jazz. With the latest papers from our Secretary you will note that it was actually passed by Council that the Herd Review would be published separately, whereas I gave the impression that it was still under discussion. Please, in future, don't believe my wife when she tells you that I am perfect. However, the decision has stirred some interest. Writing to Council may get these sorts of points over more effectively than the discussion board.

groubearfarm · Post by **groubearfarm** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:52 pm

The discussion board is an immediate way of gathering members opinions, whereas a letter to Council takes time to be considered and replied to. I (and others) did not realise the direction Council were taking when we were told there were to be changes in the Herd Book.
The discussion board should perhaps be regarded as an effective way for Council to be aware of the opinions of the members.