Clover / Herbal Leys?

[DavidPatch]

I have the chance to rent a little more grazing for next year. It will be used just for summer-grazing, and there will be no need to cut for silage. The land is relatively heavy clay and I need something which will improve the condition of the soil when it is ploughed back in in 6 years time (I work on a plant nursery and I'm trying to fit some grazing into the crop rotation).

I wondered about using a clover-rich ley, or one of the herbal leys I've seen on the Cotswold Seeds website. Does anyone have any practical tips they could pass on? I know I might have to strip graze to minimise the risk of bloat, but is there anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks

David

[Saffy]

I know that red clover is a bigger bloat problem than white clover.

Also keeping clover relatively short by regular grazing is I believe a good idea, as I find it is when cows can "pig out" on a big patch of well developed clover that the problems start.

Perhaps you shouldn't put too much clover in the mix when you sow your field. It should be possible to get advice on ratio of grass to clover and most suitable ley for your soil, climate and purpose - you used to be able to ask ADAS. Does anyone know who you would ask now?

Whilst on the subject of bloat I have a question. My father used to make a "bloat mix", it contained some bizzare ingredients and was very oily and cloudy and smelt wierd but it worked well, I can't remember exactly what went into it. Does anybody have a recipe?

P.S.Nice to hear from a new "Poster" welcome!!!

Stephanie

[Louisa Gidney]

I've used the advice in the TV vet book for bloat, old-fashioned washing soda. Drench is a very descriptive word! Also vegetable oil, TV vet recommends one particular sort but my own vet said any vegetable oil would work. Followed this by probiotics to get the rumen working again normally. An interesting experience, trying to follow instructions in a book by torchlight with horizontal rain & an unco-operative cow. It wasn't clover bloat but pigging out on the hen food store bloat. The multifarious joys of keeping Dexters. People always seem surprised that I don't have a television....

[Mark Bowles]

Beware on a new lay, i went for a 1% clover mix, trying to be clever, we sowed in October and next spiring it looked more like a 75% mix. The clover the next year died back so now after 4 years we are getting somewhere close to the desired amount. This was white clover and a traditional cockle park seed mix.
Mark

[Broomcroft]

I would be careful with the clover content. I have some fields that we seeded 2 years ago and the mix had a reasonable amount of clover in it. But due to the hot weather and the clover being heat resistant, it has taken over. I am just about to ask my grassman what to do.

Interestingly, there is so much clover that the cattle avoid it. Everybody says they love it, but I can tell you mind don't. Maybe it's like salt and pepper, great as a complement, but you wouldn't want a whole plate of salt and pepper would you? You can see their tongues seeking out the grass and leaving what clover they can miss behind. Result is nothing but clover. There are loads of different clovers not just red and white, whether they differ I know not.

They get the start of bloat every week, and I then move the lot onto a small starvation paddock for about 36 hours, then ut them back on the clover field becauser that's all I had till I took haylage recently.

I am about to do something like top it to hold it back if the grassman says this will do the job. Maybe spray it later as well which I'll try and avoid.

The object of treating for bloat is the same as humans isn't it? A mixture of bi-card, water, bit of oil, nice and frothy, down the throat out of a wine bottle and hopefully a lot of beltching follows....or the other end....but don't take my advice, that's what I do on sheep.

[forestblaze]

Cooking oil about half pint mixed with a little water,.....shaken not stirred. use a plastic bottle ,then there is no chance of the patient biting the neck of a glass bottle put the bottle in the side of the mouth and pour slowly it takes about three swallows then stand back and listen to the rumbling you can actually see the stomach going down.

[Broomcroft]

If you use olive oil instead of corn oil, you retain more Omega-3 in the animal :D

[Woodmagic]

One thing they need when on lush grass is fibre, I used to make a practice of putting a bale of straw out in the field for them, and I actually experienced them running and mobbing me for it, when I took it out. That was in the days when hay was a lot more expensive, but I suspect straw is still the best bet to supply the fibre.
Today some of my fields, all now down to old pasture to stand up to the poaching, are a mass of clover, but it doesn’t seem to give a problem. Or is it that my cattle are allowed to roam over a big area and balance things out for themselves. They bring themselves home at night to the home field, and in the morning travel off to the far boundary.

[forestblaze]

May I digress from the main topic for a couple of sentences,Has any body else out there tried giving a calf with scours a raw egg .It really does work. Sue

[Martin]

Whenever I put my cows onto fresh pasture I always offer hay for the first week to ten days, it seems to do the trick and I always make sure they are not hungry when first turned out.
Martin. Medway Valley Dexters.

[Saffy]

Has any body else out there tried giving a calf with scours a raw egg .It really does work. Sue

I have found live yoghurt pretty good, funnily enough they seem to like it as well!!! ???

Stephanie